Think Differently. Solve the Impossible.

Show Notes

Connect with Michelle Hoffmann
Website:  https://theartofrelationshipping.com/ 

Life Worth Living: A Practical & Compassionate Guide to Navigating Widowhood & Sole Parenting
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MQBZGBT 

The New Management Blueprint: Spark Talent to Ignite Winning Teams and Create Valuable Results
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086P8HWCW 

Transcript

My guest today is Michelle Hoffmann.

Michelle is a master life and relationship coach.

She helps people up their relationships and attract, keep, and enjoy the right people in both their personal and professional lives.

Whether it's a relationship with an intimate partner, family member, someone at work, a colleague or a customer, she helps you improve your relationship skills so you can live your life the way you want, the way you desire.

Personally, she's a widow, honored to have had a loving relationship with her late husband, and she's a caring mother of two children.

Professionally, she's a two-time best-selling author on love, personal and professional relationships, and had a corporate career helping organizations improve client and employee relations.

After the loss of her husband, people started asking her for help, guidance when they saw how she pulled her life for herself and her children together, and her coaching practice took off and grew as a result.

She says it's all about relationships.

Wherever you are on your journey, if you're single, have a partner, you're married, divorced, or widowed.

She says it's time to have confidence and live and enjoy the life you dream of.

Welcome to my show, Michelle.

Thank you so much.

It is time to live to your potential and to love the life you're living.

Nice.

So did you ever kind of gave your life story almost in your introduction, but did you ever think that you'd be a relationship coach?

I never thought I would be a relationship coach.

The irony of this is throughout my life, I've always been doing this.

And once I literally put the shingle out of I'm a relationship coach, people who've known me throughout my life have come to me saying you've been doing this forever, and now you're doing this professionally, you're hired.

Help me.

That reminds me of the classic saying, you got to show up.

You got to show up.

That's my number one rule.

Show people what that means if they haven't heard the saying before.

To me, and I would say this too, I would have in the corporate world, I had 50 employees at any given time.

And I would say, I only have one rule.

Show up.

And what I mean by that is show up physically, show up on time, show up emotionally, show up with enthusiasm and intention to really dive in and get the job done and make a difference, and show up with intention.

Show up with intention.

It reminds me of two, and people ask, what do you do, and you're a solo preneur trying to do your side hustle, and you have two choices.

Am I the engineer or the musician, the singer-songwriter?

Am I the life coach, or am I still working in corporate America?

That's a time to show up too, right?

It's always time to show up.

And it may be time to show up for yourself by retreating and turning in to rebuild your own resources and energy.

That's a different way of showing up.

But absolutely, yes, showing up for yourself.

So when I invited you, asked you to be on my show, I was thinking, what can we talk about?

Or you asked me, like, what do you want to talk about?

And I kind of had this thinking of an agenda.

You rather told me, no, let's just talk about kind of what your website or your business is almost called.

Relationshipping.

As you say, it's not just about love.

It's about work, relationships, personal.

So tell me about that.

Tell me how you help people find love, not just romantic love.

Yeah.

So I appreciate that people have come to me saying, I know you can help me understand what love means to me, and then help me go find it, because it is a very unique thing.

What we are neurobiologically designed to connect with others.

We come into this world, we find our balance.

My version is that we discover and experience this life as we know it, and I don't know what comes before or after, and I wish I had the wisdom of the womb, because I think there's all kinds of knowledge in there.

But my understanding is we take information in through our senses.

Sight, taste, touch, sound, smell.

There are more, there's proprioception, so moving through space and time, understanding the sense of time, all of these things.

We take this information into our brilliant brains, and we take that data in and compare it to our history in life.

And then that creates an emotion which transforms into a feeling.

And based on what we want the outcome to be, there's a pause there.

What do we want our action or inaction or behavior to be to achieve that outcome?

So for example, if I'm thinking, oh gosh, my hand is on the hot stove, I don't want to be, you know, this has, it's getting too hot, I might get burned, I want the outcome of being safe, I'm going to move my hand back.

So a very simple example.

So our brilliant brains are taking in all the data in the world around us.

We need to balance the seven primary things in life to keep us in homeostasis.

This is universal.

I agree, kind of like John Lennon said, love's all you need.

I'd put it number one.

It's all you need.

Okay, you can put it as number one, but we want to make sure that those other things are in balance also, because it's hard to connect with others if you're in pain, if you're too cold, too hot, too hungry.

So we want to make sure that we get all of those things in place.

And those...

Is it though?

Because I'm just pa-

I'm just imagining things.

I'd do better if I paint a picture in my head.

Yeah.

If I'm in pain, but somebody loved me, they could take care of me, and I could take care of them.

If I wait until I'm healed, and I'm in a perfect state of mind, and I have everything I need, and I'm rich, and I'm full, and I got a big house and a nice car, I'm lonely.

And I've been lonely.

The whole time I've been saving my money, and working, and working on my health.

That doesn't seem like the right way to live.

Shouldn't we start with number one?

I'm going to agree with you.

We should start with number one.

There's a balance in there because you as an organism, you still need to be in balance while you're achieving all of those external goals.

I'm suggesting that this internal goal of taking care of yourself first, and then reaching out to your community to invite connection in is part of that.

So it's not that they're in order of importance, it's part of that.

So it's not just inviting true love in, it's inviting in your community to, and again, you're born into this world, not able to support yourself in those things.

So you have that love, you have that caretaker, whoever you are.

I have a theory.

It's a work in progress.

We're in trauma.

What's that?

Bring.

I'm eager to hear what you're going to say.

Trauma, a lot of people's trauma.

This is based on my own, still analyzing it as an engineer, my past and present experiences, relationships, parents, school.

I feel like my need to get the food, to get the grades, to get the job influenced how I communicated and received love.

Yep.

To which again, even though I needed to take care of myself, it seems backwards if we had loved, if we had loved to begin with.

But we don't.

So let's focus on how we solve the problem.

There's a balance in there, because some of those things we're taking care of for you to a degree where you could then attempt to take care of those things for yourself.

In the process, as we grow, we hope that we can learn to take care of ourselves in that way.

This leads me to, it was going to be towards the end of the questions, but with parents.

It starts when you're young, right?

And parents don't have the communication skills, a lot of them, until later.

Respect for parents, by the way.

Yeah.

They don't teach you this stuff.

They should.

You should have Michelle.

You should take Michelle's class, if you.

That's exactly where we're going.

Because as a kid, you do have, it's not that you have enough food, you want more, right?

You're testing your parents.

You're testing.

You're learning where you fit in your community.

And this is not technically, this is not the, like, let's just ask for what we need, right?

You're challenging your parents and your parents got to learn how to challenge you back with, without traumatizing you.

So jump into, what are some skills, some tips for parents?

Maybe especially parents to be a new ones who are struggling with, how do I communicate with my teenage or even their teenager?

You hit a whole bunch of categories there.

All right.

I'm going to give you some quick and easy tools.

And I call these relationshiping tools because it's a verb.

The way that we connect with one another, communicate with one another.

And as you were pointing out, when are we taught these things?

The people who came before us are going to bring the best that they've got to our relationship with parent and child, where you're the child.

And they'll give you what they've got, but they can only bring what they learned from those who came before them.

And realizing that you're in a different set of circumstances with a different set of goals to move forward, you need to take the best of that and then do what's right for you.

Now, to answer your question, some really hot, valuable tips.

If your children are very young and you're a parent, I encourage you each evening before, you know, as you're putting the children to bed, to play a game.

And the game is, did anything, is sad, mad, glad?

Did anything make you sad today?

Let them talk.

And the longer they want to stay awake, the more they're going to share with you.

And don't, it's not time to parent, it's just time to listen.

Did anything make you mad today?

Just listen.

Did anything make you glad today?

Then invite them to ask those questions to you.

This game is actually pretty sophisticated because it gives the child an opportunity to know there will be an appropriate time to share their emotions, feelings, and perspectives each day.

And if they never have a specific time for that, they may never share it with you.

It also establishes a lifelong connection because they get to share that by taking the lead and asking those questions of you.

Sounds like somebody cares.

Sounds like love.

It sounds like love.

As your children get older, hold on.

So go ahead.

I'm still in the picture.

This is great.

I'm imagining my kids telling me something, and my teenager just had sex, and they're way too young, or didn't drugs.

Do I have to remind myself, this is not the time to speak?

And then after the sad, glad, what are the three?

Sad, mad, glad.

Bad, mad, glad.

When the three are done, then do I talk, and then do I go, you know what?

Drugs, you grounded, or you're not hanging out with your friends.

When's the time to actually be the parent, the tough love?

Okay.

So sad, mad, glad is traditionally for younger children.

When they don't have the sophistication, of course, they don't have the prefrontal cortex established yet, but for younger children is sad, mad, glad.

When the children are a little bit more independent, I'm going to say, because that could happen at different ages, developmentally for individuals.

When they become more independent, and they're establishing their independence, they're going to venture out, try new things, and create a distance between their parents so that they can individualize.

This is an appropriate developmental stage, as difficult as it may be for parents to be like, oh, you're going down a difficult path.

It's at this point, and we hope that we've provided enough positive influence up until this point so that they can make good decisions for themselves.

Although many times people in this developmental stage will make long-term decisions when they should, they'll do long-term actions for short-term decisions.

And that doesn't always work in their benefits.

What do you mean by that?

Long-term?

I'm actually thinking of if people take, if they die by suicide, they're making a long-term decision for something that could have been resolved.

So, or if they're doing drugs, or getting involved in a bad crowd, they're not thinking long-term of the impact of this.

They're thinking short-term, I want to alleviate a pain that I'm experiencing.

So they make a choice that has a long-term impact to alleviate a short-term problem.

I think if we were doing the sad, mad, glad thing from the beginning, and I was to tell, yeah, I think there'd be less suicide because I'd already have someone to talk to and be used to talking to them.

Right.

Right.

And to know that there's someone who will see you and hear you and value.

So if we, you're getting to, I know you're getting to the point, the part where as a parent, though, then I go, you know, that's bad.

And then my kid will probably go, well, I shouldn't have told you, I'm not going to tell you more.

So they realize the crux.

Then they're going to distance themselves.

So the tool here is to offer.

I see that you're, you're in a situation.

Don't make a judgment on it because this child has already made their own judgments.

And the further down that path they are, the less you can't stop them anyhow.

They're going to go to school and hang out the gang and do drugs or do some stupid anyhow.

So then they'll go to church and go behind the church and do it.

Reverse psychology almost.

So what I'm suggesting is to offer, would you like me to listen, guide, or help?

Immediately by giving them a choice switches where their brain is lit up from their amygdala, which is always looking for danger, by giving them a simple choice, any choice at all, it switches with their brain to be lit up in their prefrontal cortex in decision-making.

It's making me think.

Took me off track.

Like I was going to functioning.

Yeah, I was going to tell mom about that or dad about that.

What a bad step.

Oh, it's making me think.

It's kind of pausing for a moment.

Yeah, nice.

So would you like me to listen, guide, or help?

Now, they may shut you out because you didn't start this early enough, but you've got to meet them where they're at.

If they say, listen, then your job is to close your lips and throw away the key.

You can say, thank you for sharing.

That's all you're allowed to say if they chose listen.

Do not overstep your boundaries.

Yeah, because otherwise next time, I won't want to say anything.

That's right.

If they choose guide, thank them for allowing you to share your ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and opinions.

You go ahead and say, thank you for inviting me to participate in what's going on with you.

You're valuable to me, and I appreciate that you're listening to my thoughts here.

And I started with that I just came home from work.

My boss was mean to me, so I'm working on this.

I've been on the podcast, talked to Michelle, so, you know, son, daughter, give me some, cut me some slack.

I'm trying.

Right.

Then you need a mommy or daddy.

We both had a hard day.

Sometimes you need a break on your own.

I need a mommy time out for just a moment, and then we'll talk about this.

So if they choose guide, thank them and admit, I know you're going to do what you want to do.

Thank you for inviting me to share my beliefs and values with you.

Because they're going to do what they want anyway.

Then if they choose help, and they can start with listen, and you, and you listened.

If they can up-level it to guide, thank you for allowing me to share my values and beliefs with you.

And given the situation, would you consider XYZ?

And I know you're going to do what's right for you.

I understand.

Thank you for letting me share my thoughts.

And then help, if they choose help, that means you are actively going to get involved.

And if they're asking for your help, that's when it's time to make the phone calls, show up at school, get involved, get the support and resources you need outside of yourself in addition to yourself, because sometimes, and we've been kids, we just don't want to hear our parents' voice.

We want our parents' voice to be loved.

We're going to learn from somewhere else.

So you can put other advisors in place, but until they say, parent, please help me, you should be doing listen and guide based on what they ask, because that builds that level of trust that you value what their choice is.

Nice.

So would you like me to listen, guide, or help?

Perfect.

Thanks.

That's why you do what you do.

I get to teach high schoolers how to make real friendships and relationships, and it works every time.

Works every time.

So let's talk about dating and relationships next.

You have on your website a resource, you can download essential tips to building an online dating profile that works.

Yeah.

And the works thing makes me think, I'm going to attract somebody really sexy and hot and beautiful or whatever.

Yeah.

So I was wondering what I would find when I downloaded it.

And I have respect for what I downloaded from you because it's what I always tell people.

Like if I'm coaching one of my friends or other guys, I'm like, before you go up to that beautiful woman, and you give her some cheesy pickup line, what are you doing with your life?

Who are you?

And why do you think she would want to go out with you?

Where would you take her?

What are you doing in your life?

And the way you have it, you kind of ask the same things almost.

What do you want in almost who are you, right?

Yeah.

It's who are you in the world?

And that's how we're going to, that's how I help people find the right match.

Because, I mean, you don't, you don't want, I have a client who, there was a celebrity rock star of whose name I'm not going to mention.

And this rock star was doing anything he possibly could to date my client.

And her challenge was, here I am, you know, what a dream come true.

You know, he has all the attention in the world with his celebrity status, and he's giving all of his attention to me.

However, it was not really the relationship she truly wanted as an enduring partnership, because she was uncomfortable that anywhere they went, his attention was not just for her.

It was, it was splintered because he needed to be polite.

It was his profession to connect with anyone who recognized and approached him.

He was always on the road.

She wanted to start a family and co-create a partnership.

So as much as she thought this was going to be a dream come true, oh my God, they weren't a match because they wanted different things.

There were different points in their lives.

So to your point, it's what's the value that you bring to a partnership?

What's your intention?

What are the qualities you're looking for in a partner?

What qualities do you bring to a partnership?

So qualities is the first level.

And that could be someone who wants to co-parent, somebody who values being in a remote location without internet that's always available, like you were saying, somebody who values being in nature more than in a city.

So, you know, these are like the big swath qualities you're looking for.

Somebody who will prefer quality time together over working so hard that we have revenue coming in, because we can make it on less, but we want to live more.

So these big swath qualities.

The next level is to really realize what's your value system.

Or to be authentic.

I was going to say when you don't make this up, people, so you attract the god or goddess you're trying to attract.

Be authentic, right?

That's a really good point, because how long can you hold up that false image of who you're not?

So be who you truly are.

There is somebody who's going to be very charismatic and charming, and there's going to be chemistry when they're attracted to authentic you, for just exactly as who you are.

Also, if it's authentic, you're probably going to write a one or two-liner heading that nobody else could think of because nobody's you.

That's true.

That's true.

I think I gave an example in that list.

I have a client who lives in Manhattan and all she wants to do is adventure through the city and dance in the streets with her partner.

So that's her headline.

Well, that brings up actually a good dumb thought, Michelle, because here's the other side of the coin in doing this, to absolute, is what happens when you get tired of traveling and dancing or break your hip and can't dance, and you attract a department who that's the only reason or the main reason they're with you.

Like, oh, I like to run marathons or I like to ride bikes or like to rock climb or whatever.

Isn't there some danger in hooking up with someone who is exactly into your same activity or profile?

So what you're talking about is what I would consider the third layer, and those are priorities.

So it's qualities, like you were saying, being authentic, being kind, adventurous, let's see, with dancing or large motor skills, fine motor skills, intellectual pursuits, balancing those things out.

Core value list is going to be integrity, family-oriented, team player, those kinds of things because the decisions that we make are based on our value system.

I'm like, I'm an introvert or I'm an extrovert.

I like to travel or I only want to stay home.

Well, those are different.

I think an introvert or an extrovert is a quality.

And you can be any combination.

They will all work.

But I like to travel is the priority.

Being adventurous is a value.

So these, it gets a little granular.

No, I'm with you.

Adventure.

Maybe adventure isn't the right word, though.

So let's, I'm just going to give you the order of things.

Qualities, core values.

You pick your top five.

And then also the great thing is to pick the top five values you'd like to invite into your life.

They do not have to be exactly the same.

They do need to be comparable in that they work together.

If you have different values, then you could.

You're making decisions based on different things.

If you want to be, you're saving for the future in a family, and somebody wants to live in the moment, and they're spending all the money that you're saving, that's what it can work, but it's a conflict.

So we may be attracted to opposites in that case.

There needs to be a compromise and decisions made on that.

So it can always work.

That's a little harder.

Then what you were talking about is that third layer, and I call this priorities.

I like to go hiking.

I like to run marathons.

I like to, you know, whatever it is, and then you're like, ah, I've broken a hip.

What do I do now?

Does this person break up with me because of that?

The priorities are faith, finance, fitness, physicality, that frequency, the energy you bring, like are you a morning person, an evening person, are you high energy, low energy, intellect, career, culture.

And how do you communicate this?

Do you write them down on paper or put them on your profile?

Here's my values and my priorities, literally?

Well, you can, or you can talk about yourself and using those qualities.

Instead of talking about the weather or where I'm going running, explain why I like to run and it's a priority or a value to me.

Right.

So that was a beautiful example.

And then lead into-

Just static.

And then lead into it's a value and a priority.

And by the way, therefore, is why I'm going to the Boston Marathon and getting up early to run before I go to work every day.

You, that was perfect.

Because that explains how you choose to spend your time and your life.

Someone will be naturally attracted to that or they'll self-select out, which is amazing.

So Michelle, thanks for giving me kudos.

I'm going to, it's encouraging me to do what I'm going to do next, which is some, you can tell me if I'm right or wrong.

Somebody told me I'm absolutely dead wrong, like ridiculous.

I can't wait.

What are you going to say?

I was like, let's get to this on the first date.

While we're doing something fun, but we're sitting in a restaurant, but maybe instead of going to the restaurant like, okay, you don't run, can we go for a walk?

One of my values is being outside and exercise.

And if you don't even like to walk or they have this sense and then start talking about it like, no, that's bad.

Not in the first date.

What are you going to wait to like the fifth, 10th?

What's the number here?

What do you think, Michelle?

I have a strong feeling about this actually.

And it depends if you're in an exploratory phase of dating, because dating is an exploration of meeting and learning about people and being a curious detective and discovering as a result, what do you truly value, whereas what you thought was important is not that important, and what is not that relevant.

So if you're in the exploratory phase, I encourage you to go out with everyone and talk about any and everything.

What will naturally, organically occur is that you'll start to decide who you wish to spend your precious time in life with, and you'll then, and I say, it's easier to find a needle in a haystack when you have an idea of what your needle is going to look like.

And let's get rid of the rest of the hay if you're very focused on finding your one partner.

If you're looking for a whole ton of friends, take them all.

Go for it.

Get a big haystack.

Right.

Take the whole haystack.

You can have it all.

But if you are looking for your enduring true love, who your match, your person, who you want to enjoy being out in nature with, your person who is the pillow talk at night, who you look forward to waking up with in the morning, who you look forward to having as your emergency contact because you trust them to make decisions on your behalf.

And what I say is, in a healthy relationship, you maintain your own identity and individuality, and then together, you've created this third entity of this partnership.

And sometimes one person supports or another, but every decision that the individuals make is designed to elevate the partnership.

So to answer your question, if you are holding back on the qualities, the core values, and the priorities that you think are most important, you're not actually representing yourself truthfully.

Well, I think what happens is, you go out with somebody, you kind of...

There's that chemistry, that attraction, that biological thing.

Go have fun with that sparkly object.

Yes.

Except then once you...

This is why I think the sooner the better you bring it up, because then if you wait, you feel, okay, I'm taking a risk now by letting them know how authentic I am, who I really am.

But don't you want them to be attracted to your authenticity?

I do.

That's why I'm like, the sooner the better.

The sooner the better.

I'll give you an example.

Okay.

I have a client, and what she wants more than everything, anything else, is to partner with someone and create a family together.

And we set up a mock date, because I was trying to figure out how come this isn't working for her.

So, I had another client just on virtually, they went on a mock date, and some of his feedback was that she should not say that she wants to have children, because I'm not going to go out with her.

And I'm like, well, you're not the right fit for her anyway.

But she realized very clearly that if she's going out with people who don't have the same idea of how they'd like to share life together.

Yeah.

We do actually have a friend that that happened to.

He's like Daniel, she on her first date said, I already have my seven children's names, names picked out.

Okay.

And he was, so they both have good personal communication schools, by the way.

So clearly she did, I think what you're suggesting is the right thing to do.

It's what she did.

She's like, I can waste my time.

And he was really cool about it.

He's honest, like, it's not me.

Right.

I want to travel a bit.

You know, I've got a surfboard, whatever.

He's a professional.

He has a real job, works for a big company.

It's just he wasn't ready to do that.

They're still best friends.

Awesome.

She married a dentist who was exactly her fit.

Nine to five, going to make enough money to have a big family.

Happy.

All worked out.

And the only question I would have for her is, does your partner get to contribute in the naming of the children that you're welcoming into the world?

Because otherwise she's making that as an isolated decision without considering the partnership.

So sure, go ahead, and I call that future casting.

Go figure the whole thing out.

She's got the image of what she wants in her life, and allow your partner to participate in that.

And I'll bet you if it wasn't that relevant or he liked the names, he was going to be fine with them.

But to say, this is how it is, this is how it is, this is how it is.

I'm just relaying the story too.

So I didn't know I wasn't there.

Well, okay.

So those would have been my thoughts on it.

But yes, I do think that being genuine and authentic about who you are in the world, and how you'd like to enjoy your life with a partner in it is quite relevant.

So what about work?

The third we got.

So professional relationship.

Professional, yes.

All relationships follow the same cycle, from chemistry to casual to committed.

And whether that's a personal relationship or a professional relationship, they look very similar.

And I'll give you an example.

We were just talking about understanding your personal profile of who you are in the world and then taking a snapshot of that and using that as a dating profile, whether it's online or if you meet someone in the wild organically, you have an idea of who you are and how you want to represent yourself as somebody who might be a prospective partner.

So that way, you're showing the best version of who you wish to become and the value you bring to a relationship.

Now, if we were going to shift that over to the professional world, what's similar?

Here's who I am in the world.

Here's my skill set, and I'm looking for the right fit organization, where I can then fill a role, or there's a relationship, a partnership.

And the way that I'm going to share that information is by taking a snapshot of my skill set.

We call it a resume or a CV.

I'm going to submit that, and somebody in Human Resources is going to say, it's a match.

Let's bring this person in and see if they are.

I don't like the dating profile on the dating.

You got it.

Then it's a matter of, so in both cases, and I'll use the personal side because I think it's more exciting.

Example, when you're about to meet someone or you meet someone initially, that throws you into the chemistry phase of a relationship.

And again, you can mirror this over to a professional relationship.

Ah, I got a call back and I'm going to go in for an interview.

So let's say you're into the chemistry phase of a relationship because you're going to go on a first date, let's say.

And what happens is your body literally changes the chemistry.

It ups the dopamine, the oxytocin, the cuddle drug, that cuddle hormone, and all of those neurotransmitters that put you into a state of euphoria, like eating too much chocolate.

And you're like, is that person thinking about me?

And your phone dings, and it's like, dopamine hit, they're going to text me again, this is going to be amazing.

And then you go and you meet, your eyes meet.

And again, you're thrown into this chemistry phase of the relationship and your future casting still at this point, which is a term I made up about anticipating what a relationship might look like with this.

It's expectations.

Right.

But that's still an ideal, not the real person.

And so future casting is great to a certain degree, and then it could be destructive.

Disappointing.

You're right.

If they aren't who you've put into your picture.

So you need to pull back on future casting at some point and realize you're with a real person.

And that's actually so much better than really just in your imagination.

Part of the communication, though, you could ask more questions of the other person or the job, so then you don't have to make stuff up.

Your future casting is more realistic.

Well, that's how you're clarifying this picture, to see if it's the right fit.

And I suggest doing that even before you meet with open-ended questions about the qualities you'd like to invite into your life, the core values you'd like to invite into your life, the priorities and the circumstances.

So from chemistry, we move into the casual phase of a relationship.

We're talking about jobs, though, real quick.

All right.

So we can bring it to jobs.

Go ahead.

Or work.

Because you mentioned resumes and CVs.

I thought we're going on a job, starting a new job.

All right.

Let's go with that, then.

You know, I've heard the idea you should ask an interviewer questions or recruiter questions as well after they ask you questions, because that would align with what you were just speaking of.

Absolutely.

When you go to a job interview, you ask some questions, right?

It's the same thing.

You're looking for the right fit.

You're looking for a match.

You're looking for an opportunity where you can blossom into the best version of yourself, whether it's personal or professional relationship.

When you're in an interview, and I've interviewed thousands of people, what we, as the interviewer, are looking for is does this person fit the qualifications?

And if not, do they fit the culture?

And are they someone who I can teach the rest of what they need to know to fill the role?

Your job as the interview candidate is to see if it's a right fit for you.

So as you were saying, make it a dialogue back and forth and ask those open-ended questions.

Except that if I really need a job, and the job market is soft, and the money is good, I'm back to when I'm dating, and I really, the woman's beautiful, and I really want the woman.

I know she wants kids and I don't, but I might just tell, I'm not going to lie, I'm just going to not be straightforward.

That's how we get ourselves into the unhappiness, right?

Right.

That's how you get into the wrong relationship.

That's how you get into the wrong job.

So if you need something short-term, go ahead, but realize what you're doing.

But if you can ask your interviewer questions like, what do you like the most about working here?

What have been some of the biggest challenges?

What do you think the skills that I have fill the requirements that you're looking for?

Where's the gap and how do you see me as someone who could fill that gap?

What has been the biggest surprise for you working here?

What are the growth opportunities here if you want to grow with that?

This, okay, so to your point, this is a great entry level role, but I'd really like to achieve this in my career.

Do you see an opportunity where we can create a career path to achieve that goal?

So there are questions that you can ask that will help demonstrate that you are truly interested in this opportunity, and it will give you insight into what you're really stepping into.

As I imagine you or myself actually saying this in a job interview, I feel confident.

I feel more confident than I do when I just go there and I keep my fingers crossed and pray that I get the job.

Right.

Right.

Because then you know that you feel safe enough to talk with your hiring manager, and that this is going to be a good fit.

You don't have to second guess yourself.

You don't have to walk on eggshells.

You don't have to worry about making a mistake.

Well, I've gone out on a risk because I feel like hope is what it is.

Ironically, by doing that, I'm actually more confident, which is maybe what we're looking for.

Even if we're not, it's going to unconsciously project my confidence, even if I'm underqualified, the confidence is going to project.

Even if you're underqualified, if you are confident that you are willing to show intention and that you're going to put the effort in, you have a much higher chance to make that fit.

And again, that's in both a personal relationship and a professional relationship.

We don't necessarily have all the skills in a personal relationship.

We don't know that person.

You're going to, through from chemistry to casual to committed, learn about a person.

And in the casual phase of a relationship, be it professional or personal, this is where we can anticipate what's going to happen next.

We have an idea of what time at work or with this person is going to be like.

And that brings us a sense of comfort, like eating your favorite meal or going to your favorite restaurant or listening to your favorite song over and over and over again, because you know what's going to happen.

And we like that journey.

So the word on your website, I noticed conflict resolution.

Yeah.

This is a skill I think everyone can use, help with, the general audience.

What are some tips for you in an argument?

Could be with your friend, your spouse, your partner at work.

Tell me about conflict resolution and what tips we should know how to.

So I'm happy to.

And we just touched that from chemistry to casual to committed.

In the casual phase, this is the place where yellow flags may raise.

That's time to ask those open-ended questions.

And if this becomes a red flag deal breaker, that's your signal to distance yourself from this relationship.

If those yellow light or yellow flags with open-ended questions are cleared, that's your green light go to commitment.

And that's like a handshake to, ah, we can move forward into chemistry.

So what we want to do when there's conflict is make sure that we're opening the lines of communication.

And there are plenty of things to remember, but the way to navigate conflict and up level of relationship is through repeated safe communications that then over time develop respect.

And over time, that's how you build trust in a partnership.

So let's say the communication drops, but there's still enough respect and trust that we really just need to come back and go, did you really mean to do?

Give me a crazy one.

Give an example of a conflict, a common one.

I have a crazy one, and this was real.

One of my clients insisted on the spoons, spooning in the spoon drawer.

Okay, kind of like OC, compulsive disorder?

Yeah.

But this was important to her, she wanted everything organized and in place.

Okay.

And she couldn't find somebody who would, you know, who that would like, people would be like, that's just crazy land.

And so she kept finding people who were not the right fit.

But then she found a partner who didn't really care one way or another.

And he said, yeah, I'll put the spoon spooning in the spoon drawer if it matters to you.

So it was not a big effort on his part, but it gave her a sense of calm.

Now, let's say this was a conflict.

Hey, I forgot to put the spoon and I'm trying.

And one day I just forgot accidentally and my partner goes nuts.

Yeah, nuts.

And I wanted it to be something that, you know, that doesn't seem like a big deal.

We can all spoon the spoons and why do they need to be spooned?

Well, all things or conflicts are about something silly or they're made out to be the conflicts bigger than the actual issue always, right?

Most of the time.

But if someone is dysregulated, knowing that your partner can remain calm and, you know, be regulated and give their partner space.

So here's the thing.

We all want to be right.

And we want to look good in the process.

So if what you can do is allow your partner that, you know, sense of self without being demeaning or put downs, you know, talk about what's the meaning behind the message.

Why is this so important to you?

Oh, I need organization.

It makes no other words.

It's not you didn't put the spoon in the right place.

It's that you never listen to me or you never do what I ask or a bigger thing like that, right?

Right.

So really, it's validating the partnership and understanding that the partnership is more valuable than the action at hand.

It seems like a good way to start the conversation and take a moment and go, okay, I value our relationship more than the spoon, but I value the spoon because I value relationship.

So I'm going to listen now, but I just want you to know that doing this because of you.

Because I care about you.

Because I care about you, yeah.

Yeah, and making sure that you are regulated and you have those seven things balanced out.

Which Cree supposes if he or she was listening, he must care.

It must have been an accident that he put the spoon, he didn't or didn't put the spoon in the right place, right?

May not have been him.

She just needs his help.

Yeah, it wasn't me.

Right.

It may not have been him.

But look, you're happy.

The spoons are back into the spooning and we can go on and carry on with our loving relationship.

So again, I'm using an extreme example.

But with summarize, because when it comes down to the real thing, it's like having a cheat sheet.

Right.

I'm going to give you this summary that you can use as a template.

And it's not really the spoons example.

But if there's been some infraction, I stepped on your foot.

The way to apologize, because first it's acknowledging the person is important to you.

And oh, acknowledge, I stepped on your foot.

Just...

Hone up to it.

Admit it, yeah.

Yeah.

So take ownership, and there will be more respect for that.

Apologize, I'm sorry it wasn't my intention to step on your foot.

So acknowledge, apologize, make it right.

I'm gonna move over here so I don't step on your foot.

Make it right.

Commit.

I'm gonna make every effort to not step on your foot again.

So acknowledge, apologize, make it right, commit.

You know, what if someone doesn't feel it's their fault, so they don't want to apologize?

This is where the conflict escalates, probably.

So you don't have to apologize.

I don't like when people say you have to, because I'm sorry is not, I don't know.

Yeah.

But I could be sorry that that happened.

So in the spoon example, ridiculous as it was, we gave the opportunity of maybe it wasn't him who didn't put the spoon spooning.

He can say, I'm sorry that this is uncomfortable for you.

And I'm going to so acknowledge the spoons.

You're right.

The spoons aren't spooning.

Apologize.

I'm sorry that this is how it is, and it's making you uncomfortable.

Make it right.

If you give me 10 minutes, I will, when it's convenient, I'm not going to jump up to the rescue of the spoon spooning.

But in a reasonable timeframe, I will help you with this and make sure that it's corrected.

It seems like there's still a bigger issue.

Is there a way to ask the person, is it really about the spoons without sounding confrontational?

So I ask, what's the meaning behind this message?

What do you really mean?

I had a great, I'm going to give you a personal example.

It doesn't make me look that good, but it was true.

So there was a time I was very upset about, I don't remember what.

I really don't, or I would share.

There you go.

The biggest things are the silliest things.

The things we make the biggest, biggest conflict about are usually-

It was worse, because it was the middle of the night, and evidently I decided that was the time to be upset about it.

So I woke up my late husband, and I started to let him know.

And he was like, okay.

And he did the best thing ever.

So I'm sharing this, because it was so clever.

And I was able to be upset and complain about everything, and I'm really good.

I can complain breathing out and breathing in.

So this was a nonstop soliloquy.

And I did that until I couldn't breathe anymore.

And he said, wow, okay.

And we resolved that.

He said, what else?

And then I'm like, okay.

I started to look for other things that might have been bothering me.

But he probably said it in the calm.

He didn't say like, so what else?

There's some sarcasm.

Yeah, he didn't need to be defensive.

Yeah.

You know, we resolved that first thing.

What else?

And I went at it again.

And we resolved it.

What else?

And I started clearing out the back shelves of issues that might have been bothering me.

What else?

What else?

What else?

Is there anything else?

And he said, have we come to a resolution on all of these things?

They never need to be brought up again, because we found a solution or a resolution.

Is that true?

Yes.

All right.

I love you.

Good night.

Nice.

What else?

What else?

What else?

Is there anything else?

May we come to resolution?

Come to resolution.

He didn't get mad at me for waking him up and throwing all obviously, this was bothering me enough to wake me up.

So he was there.

When you ask, did we come to resolution too?

It makes me think if I was the person upset.

Well, yeah, because I'm just being a crybaby, really.

There's no resolution that's required other than me yapping because I kind of frustrated by it.

So I guess it is done.

It was done.

It never needs to be brought up again.

The other gift that that brings, we tend to, I have a client who calls this grind, where the thought passes through our head over and over and over again.

And we don't have solution or resolution for it, so it keeps coming back.

We think about it again and again and again.

He gave me resolution.

So when that comes up again, think of the resolution.

It's resolved.

I can check that off.

It was like, oh, thank you.

I can relax and go to sleep now.

What a gift.

Nice.

Is there anything else you want to add?

We haven't talked about.

Your books, Life Worth Living and New Management Blueprint.

The links will be on your show notes.

You have those two books.

Do you want to say something about them?

I have another book coming out.

It's 90 percent done.

It's already been picked up by a publisher, and it's called Find Love Now.

Nice.

This is a lot about what we've been talking about here today, about how to decide what true love really is to you and your definition, because that's the right definition, and then how to go find it.

And it's all in there.

It's a very juicy book.

It sounds great.

Your book and your theme, if I'm on the right track, the generalization, how we all just need love everywhere in relationships.

I have this thought that the world will be a happier place, less learning, less suicide.

So help me with this, Michelle.

If you, I'm looking for some tool to give people's, maybe they don't want it.

Imagine there's a stranger, you go to Starbucks, there's somebody sitting by themselves.

Now they might just be in and out at Starbucks, but you can kind of tell when someone's having a rough day or by themselves.

What's something you could say to that person to make their day?

I mean, I'm as simple as hello, you know, hi, I'm Dan, works.

I know some people, they're like, why do you care about this, Dan?

I'm like, because it's a, I care, I'm a human being.

Michelle, what could the general public, people who see a situation like that, the spread love do with a stranger?

Communication.

You know what?

Make eye contact.

So I love your idea of saying hello, but if you even can do something as simple as connecting with someone visually, I see you, I value you, and then make a real smile, I see the light within you.

And ah.

Smile is important.

Yeah.

And all the way to your eyes, like give them that gift.

It will soften them, and if not, and they will project what's really going on with them.

And then you can see the opportunity of, should I actually say hello to this person?

How can I help?

Are they just having a bad day?

Are they having a day where we can share an experience?

So again, from chemistry to casual to committed, the way to throw forward, to catapult forward into the chemistry phase of any relationship, it could be this person you see at the coffee shop alone, you make a real connection, visual connection, take a breath.

Maybe there's a cute kid doing something, or maybe something spilled and you just go, ah, so share the experience in the moment with them.

I like the key, make eye contact first, because otherwise, if I go hello, they won't even be looking at me.

They won't know it was me that said hello.

They'll think I was saying hello to somebody else.

So you got to make eye contact first.

I forgot about that part.

No, it's good.

Smile, smile number two is great.

Show that you're not there to harm them.

Like looking at them threatening, like why are you looking at me?

Yeah, they may get defensive, like don't hello me.

What do you want?

What do you need?

I just spilled my coffee.

Where if you make eye contact, so we'll use the spill coffee example, and go, go get napkins, and then go, you know what?

Do you want to cut in front of me?

Maybe they'll give you another one.

Well, this is another lesson I learned in life from somebody.

It's like, Dan, I'm going to show you how to ask somebody if they want a glass of water.

Do you know the answer?

You know the answer to this one, Michelle.

And what they did was they went and got a glass of water, brought it to me, and go, would you like a glass of water?

So with the napkins and the coffee spilling, I would go get the napkins, then come back.

And you need some napkins or help.

Do you want me to listen, guide, or help?

And that's what your new book is.

It's Find Love Now.

Find Love Now.

Nice title.

It should be out early spring or late spring or early summer.

Available wherever books are sold.

Yay.

Michelle's website is theartofrelationshipping.com.

All one word, theartofrelationshipping.com.

It'll be in the show notes.

Michelle, thanks so much for the end of my show.

Oh, Daniel, thank you so much for having me.

And any of your listeners, if you go to theartofrelationshipping.com, there's plenty of resources there, including the secrets of happiness and how to get there, including how to develop an online profile that really works.

And there's also a button that because you're a listener of Daniel's, click on that and schedule some time with me, and I will help you with a relationship strategy call.

It would be my pleasure to learn more about you and what your relationships that you'd like to have in your life will be like, because life is better with good love in it.

Perfect.

Thanks, Michelle.

Thank you so much.

Have a great day.

You too.