Think Differently. Solve the Impossible.

Show Notes

Extraterrestrial Research Center
https://www.erc2explore.com

Episode on Literally! With Rob Lowe in which Crime Junkie host Ashley Flowers was a guest they talk about UFOs being real.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/0a19DaHlnsR1Mvspw4si7W

Transcript

My guest today is Rick Warner.

Rick is a certified UFO investigator and a founding member of the Extraterrestrial Research Center ERC.

He's also the US ambassador to the Italian UFO Federation, FUI, and the lead investigator and director of client relations for Phantom Detectives, a paranormal investigation group.

He's appeared on several radio shows and television, including an episode for a documentary called Unstoppable.

He's had a lifelong interest in UFOs since he was a child, and has had the experience of spotting a UFO himself.

He's also the executive director and director of investigations for the ERC.

Welcome to my show, Rick.

Hey, thanks for having me on board.

So tell me about your backstory.

You said you're interested in UFOs since you were a child, and how you got to be doing what you're doing now.

Okay.

So going back as a child, I remember, and this was actually in California, and I was by what's called the 22 Freeway.

I remember the name because I used to go on it all the time, but it runs east and west.

And I'm in the car, my mom is talking to this friend of hers, and they're kind of talking to each other while they're driving, but not really paying attention or seeing anything.

And all of a sudden, right above the overpass of the freeway, I see what looks like a saucer shaped object.

It kind of hovered over real quick, and then it took off.

I mean, it was like an incredible, you know, stress of speed that just took off at an incredible pace and then it was just like gone.

It happened so quick.

So at the time, I didn't really...

How old were you?...

talking about it.

I'm going to say like I was probably like around 11 or 12, something like that.

I remember at the last age, I was pretty young and, you know...

You didn't...

Were you in the car with your parents driving?

Well, yeah, I was actually...

Yeah, my mom wasn't really driving because she doesn't drive a car, but her guy friend was driving.

And they didn't see it?

And I was in the back.

Yeah, I was in the back seat.

They didn't see it because like, you know, they were just so in tune with their conversation and looking at each other.

They weren't really paying attention, but I saw it.

And, you know, it definitely, you know, it wasn't shaped like a passenger jet, wasn't shaped like a single engine airplane, wasn't shaped like a helicopter.

You know, I didn't see any heat source or anything.

And it was just like real quick.

It's like I saw this thing, it kind of hovered real quick and then, and then took off and then it was just gone.

So, you know, before man even landed on the moon, if you ever sat in school that, well, someday, you know, man is going to land on the moon, they would tell you that you were crazy.

So they'd say, yeah, right.

You're absolutely nuts.

Because I actually remember people saying that at the time.

So yeah.

But that was, you know, kind of my first experience.

And growing up, I always had an interest in anything paranormal, from ghostly paranormal type TV shows, actually, and documentary series of shows that cover extraterrestrial experiences and that kind of thing.

So it always interested me, the idea of becoming an investigator, a field investigator.

So I actually, you know, one time I remember watching the show, and some of the investigators had said, you know, they were from MUFON, which stands for Mutual UFO Network.

And I signed up at a local chapter, actually out in the East Coast, where I'm living now.

Most of my life was spent out on the West Coast.

And I started going to the chapter meetings, where at this point, I haven't done any training yet to be certified.

But I was going to watch some of the lectures and things that he had there, and he would show some type of...

Who is your instructor?

Well, actually, it's not really a particular instructor, because the way it's very structured, like you have the state director, and then you have the assistant state director, and then you have the chief of investigations, and then you have your investigators under that, and then you have the chief chief investigator who's in charge of all the United States.

So because, you know, MUFON is a worldwide organization, they're really big, so they have over something like over a thousand investigators and that type of stuff.

They're quite a respectable organization, and yet when you Google them straight up, Google, the first thing will tell you that they're not credible.

Wikipedia will, you know, all the critics.

And then you go look at the organization like, what are you talking about?

They're, it's very respectable organization.

They did.

Well, here's, here's the thing.

Here's the thing.

There's always going to be skeptics on everything.

Um, you know, people could be out by the beach somewhere, and they could see Jesus walking across the water.

And you're like, wow, man, look at that.

There's Jesus right there walking across the water.

And they'll, and they'll try to tell you why.

Oh, that's just fake.

That's not even a real person.

It's not only Moses.

Yeah, exactly.

Or it's probably a hologram or some weird thing like that.

So there's always going to be skeptics.

And, and I'll tell you, so when I decided that I want to go through training through MUPON, which they have excellent training, by the way, I will say that even though I didn't agree with everything the organization did, I really like the very thorough training that they, that they put out.

Is part of their training how to separate fact from fiction?

I mean, everything's fiction until you prove it, but you can never a thousand percent prove anything.

Even the physicists can't agree on how nuclear physics works or particle physics.

Well, here's the thing.

And this, the way I investigate things and the way I was trained, okay, we always use a scientific method to investigate things and to be very thorough.

So, let's say like if you are doing a ghostly paranormal investigation or you're doing an extraterrestrial type investigation, there's, everything's very structured.

I mean, even when you interview a client, there's a certain way you interview the client.

Everything all starts out with, you know, somebody...

Like, what did you see?

Not describe the UFO you saw.

No leading questions.

Yeah, you don't, yeah, you never want to lead the witness, but basically what happens is, okay, so something happens, okay?

Somebody witnesses some type of event, or, you know, let's say they see some kind of crap that's flying in the air.

And many, many times, you know, what people think is actual something really extraterrestrial, sometimes it's not.

It's a weather phenomenon, it's a star, it's a planet, or it's a man-made craft, okay?

But, so like 80 to 85 percent of what is claimed out there as being extraterrestrial actually has an explanation of not being extraterrestrial.

So you're still left with 15 to 20 percent of cases that cannot be explained.

Which is still a lot of cases, because if we're talking through all the sightings throughout the United States, which is a lot, and then we go to outside countries, you know, Peru and, you know, Mexico and Africa, China, you know, all these other places where sightings have occurred.

You know, there's still a lot of cases.

There's a lot of sightings.

Right.

Tell me about one of your favorites.

Tell me the process for those who are skeptical that was used to actually rule out anything scientific or explainable.

Well, so I will tell you this.

So I had a level, you know, like all our cases that we do, that we investigate.

And even though I should put this out there, so I'm no longer with, you know, MUFON anymore because I have my own organization, which I'm the executive director.

And I do things a little bit differently.

Like my website right now is, I don't want to be MUFON, I'm not trying to compete with them because you have to have thousands of volunteers to do all this stuff.

And that's not the direction I wanted to go.

The idea of me creating my website that I did, was to educate people and put the word out about the UFO subject matter, you know, ufology.

So that was my main thing is to educate people.

So we have, we put out a lot of resources and information to educate people.

What percentage of my own family, pretty much the minority, no one else believes in UFOs.

What percentage do you think actually believe?

For example, I was listening to Sirius Radio a month or two ago, and it was Rob Lowe's, literally is the name of the show.

The actor, Rob Lowe, the actor?

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Yeah.

Ashley Flowers, her hit Crime Junkie Podcast.

She's his guest.

And they're just talking about UFOs like it's a no-brainer.

And Rob goes, oh yeah, everyone knows it was a soft release.

They admit the aliens are real.

And by soft release, Rob goes, you know, they're going to bury it in the news.

That way they can say they told you aliens are real, but they don't really want to.

Well, I mean, these are celebrities on a sponsored show.

Wow.

So how many people you think are like that?

Well, well, well, let me just tell you this because, okay, so here's the deal.

And this is a known fact.

Okay, so for people that are knowledgeable in the field of ufology subject matter type thing, you start digging into cases, you're looking for the data, you're doing research.

When you start seeing declassified cases that the FBI, the CIA, and the DOD, Department of Defense, they were all conducting their own investigations of is, is there extraterrestrial things taking place?

Are there extraterrestrial beans?

Are there extraterrestrial crafts out there?

Now, if they didn't think, if they, they wouldn't spend the money and resources if they didn't think that there was something out there.

But what does the government do?

They, what they do is, they, government's known for hiding the truth, government's known for sweeping things under the rug.

Okay?

So now keep in mind that a lot of stuff that's been discovered, that lots of it's been seen, very credible witnesses, okay?

Military pilots, astronauts, okay?

People in the government that have seen things, people in the military, what I call credible witnesses.

When you have an airline pilot telling you that they see a craft going by or something like that, it's very incredible information.

Well, here's two things.

The government, if you notice, they're actually acknowledging a lot more stuff than they ever were, because to prove that fact, why are they having all these government hearings?

They're having these hearings with people in the government that are in search of the truth.

They believe that there's extraterrestrial things happening.

It's kind of like cell phones, Rick, when they studied them to see if they cause cancer, and the real scientists said they did.

The manufacturers, oh, well, we need to study it some more.

Yeah, that's all the case.

Yeah, so that's a strategy to take your attention away from the truth.

Yeah, and here's the thing, because the government, like, it's not so much that they, yeah, they're being deceptive on things.

You know, the government has covered stuff up for a long time.

If you look at the declass of documents, you're going to see a lot of black marker that's been ran through that crosses things out.

I mean, even when the whole blue, you know, the Project Blue Book and all that, they said, oh, none of that exists.

Now they're saying otherwise.

And somewhere in the cabinet is the copy that's not blacked out.

They wouldn't, somebody's going to save the non-blacked out copy somewhere.

Well, I mean, yeah, it starts out that way, but, you know, there's, you know, everything starts as being classified, and then when they're going to put it out there, it's declassified.

So when the Freedom of Information Act, which would allow you to go and get that information, request information to get documents and things like that, now it's a lot easier.

Do you do that through your organization?

Are you doing FEOs, what's the acronym?

Freedom of Information Act.

So, I mean, I've been lucky enough to have obtained documents from different sources, like Dr.

Stephen Greer and that kind of thing, and also through other websites where they've done research on things and already obtained declassified government documents of stuff that's been done.

I mean, even like there's something, I believe it's probably like either late 50s or early 1960s.

I'm not real super good with dates, but there was some training, part of the training manual of the Air Force that was talking about extraterrestrial stuff and it talked about alien beings and it talked about, you know, objects that are of extraterrestrial origin, that type of stuff.

So they're already putting that out there, so they know.

I mean, there's a lot of times government got caught with their foot in their mouth saying, okay, this didn't happen, this didn't exist.

And then here's the truth of the matter, okay?

If the government wants to shoot you, shut you up bad enough, like if they think that, there's some of these whistleblowers, honestly, even Dr.

Stephen Greer has had his life threatened before.

And he mentioned about people being done away with.

Or worse than...

Basically murdered, if I'm going to just put it that way.

Worse is, the cookbook is, and then we'll get back on the positive.

Yeah.

Try to discredit you by the day before he goes on the news to talk about a UFO.

Instead do a big story on, we're investigating UFOs, but we haven't proven they're real.

Discredit you, and then actually threaten your family before taking you out is the very last thing.

But let's bring it back.

Tell me about your experiences investigating, or doing your research.

Sounds like you're more of a researcher.

Let me tell you about this one case I investigated.

It was a class 3 case.

Class 3 case would be, let's say for an example, this guy, this farmer was working on his farm, and he saw what appeared to be an extraterrestrial craft that landed a certain distance from the farm, and or maybe he saw what appeared to be some type of alien being or something like that between the trees on the property, something like that.

So when those type of cases get submitted, those are called cat 3 cases or category 3, as all cases are classified to what is being reported.

And then of course, the next step is being investigated.

So I get this case that was reported by this lady that worked at Dover Air Force Base in the state of Delaware.

And I guess that's a spot where when soldiers get meet with their death and they're going to be buried, they take them to Dover, this Air Force Base is like where their bodies are taken before they're buried and all that type of stuff.

I don't know everything specific on that.

But so anyway, she was retired, she was working there.

And one particular day, she was taking her little poodle dog for a walk.

This was on a residential street.

And she's walking along the sidewalk.

And at the right, on the right side of the sidewalk is a pond.

And there's like all the, all these ducks and stuff in front of the pond.

And the pond's kind of in the background behind the ducks.

And what the witness claimed, this lady claimed, that her dog was looking at these ducks and barking at them in a strange and peculiar way.

Well, first off, you know, most dogs are going to be barking at that, at other animals.

It's a pretty normal thing that they do.

So that's nothing really surprising there.

But then she says she gets home and she looks at the photographs that she took.

And in the photograph, there's two things.

She had a couple photos, and one of them shows what appears to be a saucer shaped object, but it looks kind of like, it's nothing that has a lot of shape and form, like it doesn't have a lot of definition.

Is it blended with the ducks, like really small, or is it in the sky?

Well, it was actually, it wasn't where the ducks were, but it was actually where there's like this, kind of like this building area, because there's a water tank area that was close by over there.

And when you look at it, it looks like really dark, but it's shaped like a saucer.

But you don't see any definition or any markings, so you don't see like any windows or any shape that would show like sections of this thing bolted together, that type.

You don't see anything like that.

It's more just this kind of shape, kind of shadowy like.

And then you see in the picture what she described, what she thought was a giant reptilian.

So they call these reptilians a type of alien species.

So there's the saucer, and then where is the reptilian inside?

The saucer doesn't have windows.

No.

Okay.

So the reptilian thing was to the left side of the pond.

If you're looking at the pond to the left side of that in the background, it looks like this giant looking reptilian thing.

Standing on the grass by the lakes?

Yeah.

It was just like standing up.

So here's what happened.

So I conduct a phone interview with the witness.

I talked to the lady over the phone.

And I will tell you this, that sometimes people's their own fear could sway their reasoning about what something actually is, because they're playing off to their own fear.

Let's say somebody has a horrible fear of clowns.

Well, I always thought you were going to say, this doesn't make sense.

I couldn't have seen a reptile.

Let me make something else up when I reported to Rick, like a green spaceman, because I saw UFO, how can I be seen a reptile?

Well, actually, yeah.

Well, yeah, the reptilian, it wouldn't even be really considered a reptile, but it's more like a humanoid looking kind of a reptile thing.

So as a investigator, okay, you have to gather all the data.

So even when we're talking on the phone, do you think that this is something extraterrestrial?

I said, well, here's the deal.

I can't tell you this right now because we're going to wait until all the data has been put together and your case has been completely investigated before we classify your case and tell you if we fail that you have anything extraterrestrial, you don't.

Sometimes they don't want to hear that because they're looking for you just to side with them automatically.

But that's not fair because what kind of investigator would that make us?

If we just said, yep, that's extraterrestrial, you're right.

There was a giant reptile and you can't do that.

They'll be calling you tomorrow and telling you about that guy, yeah.

So what happens is I go out there to this area, who at the time, this guy was the chief of investigations for our state chapter.

We went out there.

We were checking the area for radiation.

There was no, we weren't picking up any radiation or we weren't picking up any high EMF fields or anything like that.

And then looking at the photograph, according to what she saw was, she thought was a reptilian, okay.

What did it end up being when you got, when you looked at it in the picture, you go, yeah, it does kind of like look at that.

You know, it's kind of like when you see, you know, it's amazing how people's minds can play tricks on them on things.

Like you, let's say like you think you saw something looking at you, or have you been like really far away and you could swear that someone wearing a yellow rain jacket or yellow pants is standing on the sidewalk.

But then when you get really close, it's a yellow fire hydrant, something like that.

I'm using that as an example, right?

So this thing, we look at it really close and we go, okay, well, here's what she thought was reptilian in nature, wasn't anything reptilian at all.

It was actually a large size tree.

And what appeared as eyes, we got right underneath that thing and we looked all the way to the top and we could see these two pine cones.

Well, the two pine cones made it look like those are the eyes that's looking at you, right?

Yes.

We also thought because at first we thought, well, we wanted to check and see if that would appear to be two eyes was maybe a bear that climbed to the top of this tree.

So we were checking the outside bark of this tree to see if we could collect some hair samples.

And right away we knew it wasn't a bear because the bark on the tree, you could very easily peel it off with your fingers with very little effort.

So if a bear climbed up on that, there'd be some kind of claw marks.

The bark would be peeled back and you'd see it like a fresh pink color behind the bark, like what we did when we peeled it back.

So we thought, okay, there was no bear, so we eliminated that.

There's nothing reptilian in nature because all it was was a tree and some pine cones.

The next thing that she thought was the extraterrestrial craft of saucer shape.

What we found out was we looked up everything about the weather, what the weather was that day.

Okay, well, the witness claimed that it was a cloudy day and it was raining.

So I verified the date and time and it showed that it was rainy and cloudy during that time.

And if you look at cars while they're driving in the rain, and even though you don't see the sunlight out, they're still light because it's not nighttime, it's in the daytime, right?

But you could still get shadows even though you don't see a bright sunlight.

Now, of course, on a bright sunny day, you're going to get a big shadow casted from like a person or a car or even a building.

So, what had happened was there was no saucer.

Because when you looked at the picture clip, much enlarged the photograph, you could tell that this thing did look like a shadow that was shaped like a saucer shape, right?

And how you got that shape was because even though the sun wasn't out, there was still a shadow that was cast over this big field of, there was like a big field of grass.

And that all contribute to the way the light hit it, it casts this shape of a shadow that was like a saucer type shape.

So, that debunks an extraterrestrial vehicle.

That's one for the team that doesn't believe in UFOs.

Yeah.

So, and it's exactly, and you know, actually people respect you more when they know that you're, you're searching for the facts.

We always try to debunk things first.

Before we just say, yeah, that's definitely something extraterrestrial.

The same goes with ghostly paranormal cases that, that we investigate.

We've, we've, we've done a lot.

We use a lot of sensitive instruments that do different things.

We have a lot of many spin on equipment, you know, so we don't just jump to conclusions, but we try to use a scientific approach for a ghost.

Would this be a haunted house?

The ghost?

Somebody actually, somewhere I heard, some people wonder if ghosts are almost like UFOs, like they can go in their dimensions or come from a different frequency band or something just like UFOs.

Well, UFOs actually pertain to objects because you have unidentified flying objects.

So the crazy thing is, think and think carefully about this.

They didn't say in the beginning when the whole flying saucer thing came out, they didn't say identifiable flying saucer or identifiable UFO craft.

Everything started with the letter U, right?

So unidentified because they already want to get you in the mindset that what you're seeing isn't what you think it is.

They don't want you saying like, okay, yeah, well, you know what, let's just classify this as an actual extraterrestrial crap.

And then if it's not, we could just say it's not of extraterrestrial origin.

So, and the same thing, if you think of the word UAP, unidentified area phenomenon.

Again, they're putting the word out unidentifiable.

That term, I had to learn this week to prepare for this episode.

And I discovered it's only two years old or three years old.

And it's a new term, unidentified, no, it's, what's the A stand for?

It's an anomaly.

It's anomaly.

Anomalous.

Yeah, unidentified.

What is that?

It doesn't make sense.

Well, actually, there's two of them, really, because unidentified aerial phenomenon is one, and also, but the real, the real pronunciation is really called unidentified anomalous phenomena or phenomenon.

So, and I had asked somebody this before, isn't phenomena and phenomenon kind of the same thing?

It kind of is, but somebody who's an English major might set me straight.

It was the anomaly that I found confusing because it would be like, like your example, if you see something, they're telling you you don't know what it is.

So, it's like, let's say I see a bunch of cars and trucks and I see the, and I go, what's an anomaly?

Like, what does that mean?

Anomaly?

It doesn't make sense.

It's made there too because they don't like the term UFO.

It's more anomaly.

Think of an anomaly like an unknown object of some sort.

So, you're seeing something, but you don't know quite what it is.

And you can't classify it yet because you haven't gotten to that point because you haven't investigated it.

So, you know, you're digging deeper.

So, let's say like, you know, here's an example like you're out in the middle of the jungle and you see something and you say, okay, that appears to be some type of anomaly going through the forest.

Because you don't really know what it is.

But once you get really close to it, then you could say, oh, well, that's actually a tiger.

Well, Rick, that's what I'm saying.

I wouldn't, if you're with me in the jungle, I wouldn't say, look, Rick, there's anomaly.

I'd go, look, Rick, there's an animal.

What kind of animal is that?

Yeah.

It didn't need to be, in my opinion.

Well, they basically admitted they only came up with it because they don't like the term UFO.

They want people to quit using the term UFO.

Yeah.

And of course, most people know it as a UFO.

But what a lot of people don't realize is that you have other things like IFO, identified flying object means you actually identified something.

Because think of it this way.

If somebody sends me a case report form and I come back with a case disposition, that what they saw was an actual extraterrestrial vehicle, but it was actually a man-made object.

It was a passenger airplane that was flying at this direction at this time, because that's based on what they were saying and the description.

We figured that that's what it was that they saw.

So, now I identified it, and so now it becomes an identified, an object that's been identified.

So, but when you're actually, so really, the term is kind of like, when you're saying unidentified, really, you're really just saying this is of man-made origin, or this is a weather phenomenon or star or planet.

I know you guys need these acronyms because it's your job, it's your business.

Yeah.

From a layman's point of view, I totally got it when you said UFO.

I don't care if it's a land rover or a spaceship or an air.

And that just makes it, I don't know, more difficult to communicate the intention, I think, which is, I think I'm seeing something.

Oh, yeah.

Well, another thing too is, and this is true because when they were talking about, like all these drone sightings in New Jersey and things like that, and I'm probably maybe a half hour away from New Jersey, but the areas where a lot of the sightings occur were about two and a half hours away, which I wanted to get together with a few friends and go down there and check things out.

I just been so busy, I haven't had time to do it actually.

So I've seen some videos here and there, and you have a combination of some type of orbs that are kind of leaking on and off, then actual drone type objects, and that kind of thing.

But there's a lot of things that get misidentified.

Like here's an example.

So you're outside and on a night when there's not a lot of light pollution, because there's some areas there where there's a lot of light pollution.

So when you're looking up in the sky at night, it's not like when you're high up at a high altitude up in the mountains at night time, when you could see every star and constellation, right?

So because everything is so visible and you don't have any interruptions of light or anything like that.

But so sometimes a planet can be mistaken for what they think is an extraterrestrial object.

Oh, that happens to me a lot because I don't know my stars, my planets, like everyone.

Don't you know that Saturn or Mars or satellite?

I'm like, especially if you see it move.

Yeah.

Well, even like Venus and Saturn and that type of thing can appear a certain way.

And sometimes the way things can get changed, like for an example, they say, okay, Mars, the red planet.

So I'd ask this guy, well, if Mars is red, then why is it when you look at it up in the sky with the naked eye, it appears kind of like anywhere from like a yellowish-white to like kind of like a yellowish-orange type color.

Well, what was the way is explained to me was because the light is changed.

By the time it gets to your eyes to what your naked eye sees, that light spectrum looks so different because it's traveled a lot of ways.

You know, my explanation is Mars isn't red.

They made it red in the 50s because it seemed cool.

But it's not.

It's no redder than Sedona is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know what?

And it's weird because, you know, color is very subjective because to kind of prove this point, like, you know, because I work in construction field most of my life and worked as a painter and all this kind of stuff.

And somebody says, like, okay, well, what do you have an idea of what type of color you're looking for in your living room or you want to paint inside your house?

And let's say like white, what kind of white?

There's a lot of whites.

There's tons of whites.

There's grayish whites and beigey whites and, you know, yellowish whites and all this kind of stuff.

So when you pull out a color chart that has all these whites, with all these pastel whites and all these other whites, there's quite a bit of white colors that are out there.

So there's no such thing as just a white color.

And for an example, let's say like the color red, you start looking on a color chart, like on a paint chart, you'll see like a lot of different shades of red, you know, or if you start getting to the grays, grays can be like a grayish blue, and grayish blue turns into a grayish brown, and so on.

So let's back to my example of Sedona, but they also have green trees there, and it's not like the whole place is like a red planet or.

So what do you do now with your organization?

Mostly publishing, what you do with your research?

Well, so like what I'll do is, yeah, I, you know, the case is like, so if somebody submits a case to me, because I've had some cases that are kind of like utterly ridiculous.

So people can submit them to you?

Yeah, yeah, because I have on my website, you know, it's called Submit a Citing Report.

When you would go on, and I use, I created my forms using Google Forms, because it's free and you can make some excellent forms.

And so somebody could go in and fill out a Citing Report, which is basically they're answering questions, personal information, name, phone number, address, email.

What time do your citing event took place?

You know, what exactly did you see?

Like what kind of shape was it?

You know, what kind of characteristics did you have?

How long did the citing event last for?

Were there any witnesses?

Stuff like that.

So you're getting all this detailed information.

And that's your website.

It's ERC to explore.

Yeah, the actual website, my actual website, it's www.ercnumber2, numerical 2, and the word explore.com.

So ERC number 2, explore.com.

It'll be in the show notes as well.

Yeah.

So, you know, that's a place people can go if they have a case they want to submit.

And I'll tell you, I've had some cases that you're kind of like wondering, like, why did somebody actually submit this case?

And there's a lot of things you have to look at.

You have to look at, you know, what kind of physical condition was the witness?

You know, if they tell you they have vision problems, if they tell you they have hearing problems, well, if you have hearing problems, that's going to affect the way you hear things.

If you have vision problems, that's going to affect the way you see things.

If you say like, well, you know, you start typing the narrative, the client types in the narrative of their case, well, this, I saw something at night and I was with my friends, we were having a barbecue outside, and we were all smoking weed and getting drunk.

And then...

Not going to go far.

Yeah, exactly.

So you're already thinking, thinking for going to court.

Yeah, this doesn't sound credible because what this guy is describing, my first thing I'm thinking, okay, well, it's hard to take this seriously because even though they may have good intentions, well, number one, you just admitted that you were drunk with your friends and you're a bit stoned because you were smoking weed.

So where is that leaving you?

You know, it does, I have the question then, Rick, why even report it?

Because let's say you investigate it and even somehow go, yeah, what you saw is what are people wanting?

Just recognition.

I saw UFO.

I mean, what good does it do to investigate?

You saw one.

Yeah, they're real.

Yeah.

What do you want from me?

You want me to validate what you saw?

You saw it.

What do they really want from me?

Yeah.

Well, there's two things you get.

So sometimes you get hoax cases where people are just making something up because all of a sudden you go, wait a minute, why are they not putting their first name and last name?

Now, I can understand maybe they just want to use their first initial of their name and the last name.

Because they don't want to put their full name out there because maybe they're afraid that the word is going to get out there and it's going to go to their job, to their employer and they're going to be afraid of not being accepted by their fears and maybe even being fired from the job because they think you're absolutely a lunatic.

So, but then if they're so secretive, like they can't tell you what city and state they live in, they can't give you their name, then you start wondering what is this person and what are they trying to cover up?

Is this a hoax case where they're just doing this because they're bored and they don't have any real fun in their life other than just to make up stuff, make up stories for some recognition?

So there's always going to be where you're going to get cases there.

Sometimes you have people that have good intentions, but then they're not thinking logically.

So, for an example, like this guy was telling me, he thinks that his home at night was visited by extraterrestrial beings because the next following day when he woke up, there was a dead chicken out there in his backyard, okay?

So, but the guy has two dogs in his backyard.

So, you're thinking like, hmm, maybe the neighbor's chicken got loose, got in your backyard, and your dog killed it.

That would make sense to me, unless you have some kind of video evidence to support that some extraterrestrial being was just walking, some gray alien was walking in your backyard, and just grabbed your chicken and started eating your neighbor's chicken.

The chicken ate some rat poison or something.

There's a million different reasons why that.

Oh, yeah, that's true.

You're right about that.

That's a good point.

Maybe that chicken ate something that that or had some kind of disease or something, and it just happened to get inside your backyard and died.

I'm trying to put myself in that guy's head because I believe he wasn't lying.

He believed it.

How did that come to be?

And even if I had that thought, why would I pick up the phone and report it without thinking it through a little more?

It's kind of fascinating to me.

You know?

Yeah, you know, again, you know, and I think too, you know, because I mean, sometimes things happen.

You know, people, they watch things on TV.

They hear certain things.

They're easily influenced.

And they're thinking like, okay, well, you know, it had to be, I don't think it was one of my dogs, because my dogs have never heard a chicken before.

Well, there's always a first time.

There's people that didn't think that their dog was going to attack them either.

And there's people that have been either even killed by their dog or severely injured.

And all of a sudden, even the most friendliest dogs all of a sudden turned on the owner.

And you hear stuff like that all the time.

And they never thought that it happened.

I mean, you know, it could happen.

So given that fact, I mean, you know, heck, you know, maybe that happened.

Or like you said, maybe there's another explanation for it.

But it's like, well, I really bother with something, something like that, you know.

So sometimes you kind of run into that.

So I basically have, you know, clearly on my website about, you know, I'm really looking for cases that people have either video or photographic evidence.

And let's say you get some and you get a couple that are really solid.

Then what?

What's, what's your, what will you do with them besides put them on your website?

Why are you wanting this?

Why am I wanting it or or why are they?

Yeah, why does that?

I'm clearly have an interest in it and that's great.

Once you come up with, because I, I had my own experience to where I know they're real and you have, are we trying to encourage other people without telling them, hey, this doesn't work, aliens are real.

Is that the intention here to go, you know, maybe you should have a look at this because I know you don't believe in, in God, but have you read the Bible or something like that?

Is that what, is that the?

It's, it's, it's kind of like, so like I don't really try to sway any people's belief either which way, because like, you know, some people, there's a lot of people that are atheists that don't believe in God.

I mean, I believe in God, but then they'll, their argument was, well, if God's real, how come I haven't seen them?

You know what I mean?

So, you know, and you have like all these different kind of religions that believe this, that believe that.

Oh, so I got a great question for you, which is subjective.

It's not really based on, it's just a personal question.

Yeah.

How do you think the world would be different if the government were to come out, matter of fact, and not backpedal, aliens are real?

Um, I think that, you know, there would always be, there's always going to be some kind of panic.

But I will tell you this, and if you listen to the news, if you read articles, things like that, there's a lot more people now that are convinced that extraterrestrial events and extraterrestrial beings and that kind of thing are out there than there was before, because there's so much stuff that's just being put out there for you that we didn't have before.

I mean, you didn't have congressional meetings, you know, hearings and things like that, or I don't know if you call it hearings, but these congress, I'll just say congressional meetings, and when they're talking and showing video evidence of different things, and then now you do, so a lot of stuff is going to put out there.

But remember this, because you're going to have two types of people, or I say maybe three types of people.

Okay, ones that believe that this type of stuff exists.

You're going to have ones that they believe it, but they don't want to believe it.

It's like you kind of believe it, but your fear takes over you, because you just can't get around the fact that we're not the only beings out there.

You can't get around that there could possibly be other life forms on other planets.

And if you look at it from an astronomer point of view, that says, I mean, we, you know, when you look up in the sky, and I can't see it where I'm at, but I've seen pictures of it where people are looking up in the sky and they're showing the Milky Way galaxy, okay?

And so what people don't realize, what you're thinking, okay, I'm looking up at it.

You are, you're not really looking up at it, you're actually in the middle of it.

But you think you're looking at it because, but you're just like in the middle because it's so big and vast.

When you look up, you don't realize you're in the middle of this thing, even though you think that you are.

I just had a, I just had kind of a little epiphany to answer my own question.

For example, why I actually saw it on Larry King, UFOs Are Real, and then disappeared.

He said, we see it like Ashley and Rob Lowe said, you see the soft release and then you can't find it if you Google it.

Yeah.

You know why I think they're doing this?

It's like everything, religion, global warming.

They're trying to add one more thing to humanity, to make us argue amongst ourselves and be divided.

They're messing with us.

You know what?

I mean, yeah.

I mean, there's a possibility.

I mean, there's definitely a few theories and things out there.

I will say this, that you're always going to have people that are, they're going to believe everything that is told to them.

But if you use a scientific method to investigate things, and you do, you research the data because you're trying to come up with an intelligent disposition of a case, if you just agreed with, you know, imagine if anytime somebody told me about a case, and I automatically agreed with them everything you said.

You tell me that, okay, you saw Bigfoot, you saw Bigfoot, you saw Bigfoot, you saw Bigfoot.

I'd never seen Bigfoot, and I don't know enough about the subject to say that Bigfoot exists or Bigfoot doesn't exist.

But if I have a case that's handed to me like that, and I'm in the area, you know, I'm going to try to do a lot of research and see what I can come up with to corroborate the evidence.

I think it's great to question everything and not believe it if you see it.

Yeah, it is good to question everything, definitely.

But what's happening is you see it all the time.

I see it every time I Google anything that's even remotely conspiratorial, the attacking negative comments, people calling people nuts.

That's what I mean, Rick, in terms of the CFO thing.

They're using it as another way for us to get under each other's skin.

The solution to that is when I say question everything, also, it's to respect everybody else's opinion and go, thanks, that's what you think, this is what I think, and are we okay with that?

Yeah.

And you know what?

I 100 percent agree with you on that.

That's the way I feel.

You know what I'm saying?

So if someone wants to believe that, you know, Jesus never walked the planet, Jesus never existed, I don't believe that, but if you believe that, that's fine with you, you can hold on to that belief.

I'm not going to try to sway you.

That takes way too much energy to do that.

It's a good example, but not quite, because Congress is not having congressional hearings on Did Someone See Jesus?

They're doing it on UFOs with federal money in federal buildings.

It's got a little more weight to it in terms of, if you guys know, tell us, if you don't say you don't, and quit messing with us, quit releasing and disreleasing it so that I believe it, how come you don't?

Well, I didn't see that.

I didn't see that.

I think they're messing with us.

Well, the other thing too, you have to think about too, from think of like a military pilot or even a commercial aircraft pilot.

The last thing you want is something flying in your airspace that you feel doesn't belong to be there.

So imagine you have all these drones and stuff flying around, and then there's a guy flying a single engine airplane, and it crashes into it, and it causes him an accident, and he comes crashing down because it was flying in the airspace, so he didn't want to.

There might be some truth to that because I think there's a couple of aviation accidents in the last few years that they couldn't really figure out how the accident happened.

Oh yeah, you know, and what's interesting too, I ended up seeing, they were talking about, oh yeah, I saw this guy that he's a flight instructor and owns a school for people to get a commercial pilot's license to be able to be a commercial pilot's license to fly drones.

So a lot of companies and things like that, they'll hire commercial drone pilots to do inspections.

Let's say a building might be leaking out something like on top of the building or some type of heat or whatever it is and they can use like thermal imagery to look for things.

And they'll send a drone up there to look for stuff.

So, you know, a lot of times, and they'll be used for mapping, for like farming, you know, different things.

So, there's commercial drone pilots that get paid to do that kind of thing.

But then there's also these shows, which are simply amazing.

But you'll see, like, they'll take these drones and then program them on a computer to turn on certain particular colors and move in a certain way to where it could form, start off like a hat and a hat turns into the flag of the United States or something like that, let's say.

And it's all done with drones.

Well, just recently, they had, I guess, one drone wasn't programmed right and then fell out of the sky.

And then all of a sudden, a whole bunch of drones were coming down.

And one little girl, I guess, I'm trying to remember, if they killed her or she got hurt, but they mentioned a girl getting hurt from one of these drones.

So there's an example of how technology sometimes could cause accidents.

I have a thermal camera.

I was asked to use it one time to go check for arcing on power poles, for the noise and in the case of fires, arcing.

When you tell me this story, I'm like, people go out there yourself.

I mean, what, you can't take an elevator to the top of the building, get on some scaffolding?

What are you going to do when the drone shows you an anomaly?

You can't trust that.

You got to get physical with it still.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I agree what you're saying.

Yeah.

I mean, it's like, why couldn't they send somebody to the top of the building with the hand-held, maybe some of them do, but maybe.

Yeah.

It's another smoke and mirrors.

Let's make a buck is my opinion.

Yeah.

Where it will be, that type of thing.

Or if there's an infrared cameras are just heat-based anyhow, you don't know if it's hot air leaking from the building.

Last question for you.

Do you think there's good or aliens, good or bad, or they're both kinds just like there's all kinds of people in your research?

Have you got anything about you mentioned abduction?

Well, I mean, I will, I will say this.

So, you know, I feel that I do believe that there's extraterrestrial species out there.

There's different people out there that feel that there's many different types of extraterrestrial species and some of them are named.

A lot of them come from people's descriptions that have been under hypnosis, people that are experiencers, meaning they try to do away with using the word abduction case now, because abduction sounds like somebody was abducted and they're being kidnapped for money or what have you.

So now they use more, you hear the term experiencer, but experiencer slash abductee or an abduction case all falls on the same thing.

But, so I would say with the technology that they have, which is way more highly advanced than what we have, I do believe that if they really wanted to cause harm to us, they could have done that.

They could have done that already.

So I don't believe that that really is the agenda.

I think what their agenda really is is they're interested in the human aspect of us as even though we don't have the technology that they have, there's something else that interests them.

And then some experts feel that they're abducting these people because they're extracting the DNA, because some of these people have these vivid dreams or of a needle being inserted into their body and it's extracting some kind of fluid, which they feel that's a fluid that they're using that DNA to mix that with the DNA of their alien species to come up with what's called an alien hybrid, which is part human.

I mean, I don't know enough about that to say that that's really true.

Well, it sounds like, I would say it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

Well, it's all hypothetical in somebody's opinion.

Right.

You don't know that they were extracting DNA.

And when you said they were, the first thing that came to my mind is they want to colonize another planet, take it home, clone some humans, do their work for them, just like I would clone a horse or a donkey to do some work for me.

Yeah.

Well, if you think of their extracting fluid, okay, what are they going to use that fluid for?

Because they're obviously not going to do a blood transfusion.

Because if they did, we don't even know if the fluid that's in their body, is it actually like the fluid and we have, like we have blood that has all these properties or is it something else?

We don't really know, but there's got to be a good reason.

They're extracting fluid for some kind of reason.

So question is, what is that reason for?

And I'm sure it's open to speculation of what they're trying to do.

My other personal thought is, you mentioned something really interesting.

They're fascinated in humans, even though we're kind of in chaos.

Perhaps these advanced beings that have so much technology, they've lost their soul, their spirituality.

By that, I mean being kind and loving or just having relationships.

When you get so much technology, you don't really need relationships and people so much.

And humans, you know, whenever there's a fire, you know, or you need the police or you need your brother or your mother or your father.

If you have one, the family unit, the family unit, especially is a great example.

Maybe they don't have families and they're fascinated by, wow, it's not cool, humans.

You know, maybe they see something and there's certain feelings they see that they don't have and they're thinking.

You have feelings.

Yeah, there are feelings that they don't have and they're thinking, how do I get those kind of feelings and that sort of thing?

But, you know, but getting back to, you know, there's kind of a joke of extraterrestrial beings saying, okay, well, we don't, we don't want to do any harm to the planet because you guys are doing a pretty good job by yourselves, you know?

So, yeah.

So, what do we need to cause the cause of war with you guys?

You guys are doing that.

You guys got that covered.

You guys are already got your wars.

Why do we need to add to it?

Guys, let's kill each other, you know?

Yeah.

Or maybe they're placing bets on us to really figure it out or not.

Yeah, exactly.

It almost makes me think of like one of the old Twilight Zone episodes where this spaceship lands on this planet and all these people look like from planet Earth.

And then all of a sudden, he finds out that the curtains draw back, and he's in this like type of a zoo.

There's a cage around them.

And he becomes like a caged animal.

They're looking at him like when you go to the zoo and you see a tiger inside a cage.

And it's like that kind of thing, you know, because he's thinking that why are these people being so nice to me?

But they're actually looking at you as some kind of a pet, you know, put in a gauge.

When you mentioned the feelings and the technology came to mind as, have you heard of smart cities?

You know, artificial intelligence, smart cities.

Maybe, maybe, maybe they want to warn us.

You know, technology gets out of hand.

You'll just be, you lose your feelings.

Yeah, yeah.

There are some people say that, you know, maybe they're going to try to save the planet.

I mean, there, there's an organization right now called the AEDC, which stands for Alliance for Extraterrestrial Diplomatic Contact.

And they're, you know, these guys in Canada started this organization.

And basically, what they're actually doing is, as crazy as it sounds, they're actually looking for a host country that'll host an alien embassy where extraterrestrial beings can be in this embassy made strictly just for them.

So they have the money to build this thing.

They have quite a, and there are a lot of people, like a huge amount of people that are part of this organization that want to be a part of this because they want to see it happen.

And, you know, of course, there's just a lot of loopholes and stuff to do something like that.

And you're probably always going to get, I could only imagine that if somebody...

They got a spaceport in New Mexico.

Yeah.

I think if a country says, okay, yeah, you know what, let's go ahead and build the embassy.

I'm sure there's going to be a lot of backlash that's going to come with that.

You know, there's always backlash and everything.

There is.

There is.

Is there anything I haven't asked you, Rick?

You mentioned your website and it will be in the show notes again, the ERC to explore for people who want to get a hold of you.

If they think they have seen whatever term you want to use, UFO or UAP.

UAP, yeah.

Yeah.

Anything that comes to mind though that we haven't talked about?

No, not really.

I think we had an excellent discussion.

I enjoyed this podcast and being a part of the show.

I enjoy speaking with you and you thinking of me to be interviewed and ask questions too.

I thought we had a great open discussion.

It was fun.

And hats off to you for following your heart and doing the thing you want to do and not letting go of it and going through the training and now you're starting your own service, your website and you're investigating things, doing what you want to do.

Yeah, yeah, most definitely.

Yeah, so yeah, it's only been fun.

Well, good luck with everything, Rick.

Thanks for being on my show.

You're welcome.

Thanks for having me on board.

Have a good evening.