A Conversation with Scientist Gary Ehlenberger
Artificial intelligence is evolving at an astonishing pace, and not just in code. A new form of AI is emerging, built not from transistors or mathematical models, rather from living human brain cells grown directly onto silicon wafers. Scientists call it synthetic biological intelligence. This technology raises a question that few people have the language, or the courage, to ask: If we build computers out of living cells that think, learn, and respond… do we owe them rights?
In a recent conversation on The Daniel Stih Podcast, semiconductor scientist and mathematician Gary Ehlenberger helped unpack this question. What emerged was a mix of wonder, ethics, and genuine discomfort, the kind you get when science starts rearranging our definition of life.
Bio-Based AI
I asked Gary about a story that caught my eye — a new AI system made from living brain cells attached to a chip. The cells are trained with electrical signals, using reinforcement (pleasure/pain) to shape decision-making. Gary explained that while this sounds like science fiction, it’s very real: “It’s a neural net interfaced with biological neurons. They’re taking living human brain cells and training them the same way we train artificial neural networks. But it’s not a simulation; It’s living tissue.” This is a major shift. Traditional AI is math. Bio-AI is biology. And biology comes with ethical baggage.
Are Neurons Conscious?
The obvious question we explored was: Do living neurons have consciousness? Gary believes consciousness may not begin with whole brains. It may start much smaller.
“Even a single cell has sensory feeling. A paramecium responds to stimuli. Even electrons absorb energy. Consciousness may be fundamental — not something that switches on only at the human level.”
That led to a startling implication. If consciousness is not binary but a spectrum, then bio-based AI might sit somewhere on that spectrum. Somewhere between machine and organism.
If Neurons Can Feel, Can They Suffer?
Training bio-AI often involves reinforcement. Positive stimulation = reward. Negative stimulation = punishment. If living neurons have any form of sensation or aversion, then reinforcement may not be neutral. It might be painful I asked Gary a blunt question: If we give living AI pain signals, do we risk creating suffering systems? Gary didn’t deny the possibility. That’s when ethics stopped being theoretical.
Does Bio-AI Deserve Rights?
We next explored whether bio-AI should be treated like machines or like organisms. After all, if a cluster of neurons can learn, adapt, respond, and function as a decision system, do we owe it moral consideration? Could destroying such a system be harm? Could forcing it to compute be slavery? Could wiping its memory be violence? Gary emphasized how radical the shift would be:
“We are entering territory where consciousness might be deeper than we realize. If a single neuron has a form of awareness, then what we create may not be purely mechanical.”
This isn’t about fantasy. It’s about responsibility.
Is Consciousness Biological or Universal?
Gary shared a perspective rooted in decades of mathematics and physics:
“Consciousness may be at the root of everything — from cells to electrons. It may be fundamental to reality.”
That is not a fringe idea. Quantum theorists, mathematicians, and neuroscientists are actively exploring similar models. If consciousness permeates matter, then any system using living cells may carry some degree of subjectivity, no matter how primitive. That changes everything about how we treat it.
A Legal Void
Right now, there are:
- No laws defining bio-based AI as living
- No ethical oversight
- No welfare protections
- No limits on reinforcement training
- No guidelines for disposal
- No standards for memory erasure
A company could grow thousands of neuron clusters, train them, scrape them, discard them, and rebuild with no legal barrier. Gary and I both agreed: Technology is moving faster than ethics, and faster than understanding.
The Danger of Assuming “It’s Just Cells”
We talked about the risk of repeating old mistakes. History is full of times humanity denied the inner life of something unfamiliar such as animals, infants, other cultures, and nature. Only later did we realize what we had destroyed. Now we’re facing a similar crossroads. If neurons are conscious, then using them as computing components could be ethically catastrophic.
Should Bio-Based AI Have Rights?
The question is unavoidable. The answer isn’t simple. Bio-AI may not be human. It may not think or feel as we do. But if it has preference, sensation, aversion, learning, memory, then it sits between code and creature. Gary put it plainly:
“If consciousness is fundamental, then these systems may not be objects. They may be something else entirely.”
Final Thought
Technology is pushing us toward moral territory we have never entered. Machines that are not machines. Computers that grow. Learning systems with biology. Artificial intelligence that might, at some level, experience.
We may learn that bio-AI feels nothing. We may learn that it feels something. We may learn that it feels everything. Until we know, the most ethical stance is humility. This isn’t just about intelligence. It’s about experience. If experience exists, even in a primitive form, then bio-AI may deserve protection. At minimum, it deserves consideration, restraint, and respect.As Gary said in our conversation:
“Science works best when it is uncorrupted, when we’re searching for truth, not just convenience.”
If the future brings living-brain computers, our job isn’t just to build them. It’s to remain human in the process.
Editor’s Note: This article is based on my podcast interview with Gary Ehlenberger, published on March 5, 2024. The ideas discussed here originate from that conversation. The structure, emphasis, and commentary are my own. Any errors or interpretations should be attributed to me, not toGary Ehlenberger.
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