Think Differently. Solve the Impossible.

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About the Host

Daniel Stih is an aerospace engineer, software engineer, indoor environmental consultant, and author of 12 books. Through engineering, environmental investigations, and interdisciplinary research, he explores how people define problems, interpret evidence, and make decisions under uncertainty. Learn more in Why I Think This Way.

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Show Notes

Sheryl Green websites:
https://www.sherylgreenspeaks.com
https://www.YouHadMeAtNo.com

Linkedin - sherylgreenspeaks
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherylgreenspeaks/   

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Transcript

My guest today is Sheryl Green.

She's a keynote speaker on mental health and the importance of setting boundaries, both personally and professionally in your personal life and in business.

She's the author of six books.

Her latest is You Had Me At No, How Setting Healthy Boundaries Helps You Banish Burnout, Repair Relationships, and Save Your Sanity.

There's also an adult coloring book to go with it called You Had Me At No, Color Your Way to Healthy Boundaries.

Welcome to my show, Sheryl.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

I'm excited.

So tell me first, why your speaker, your keynote speaker, why boundaries in particular?

What was your path, your story led you to focus on that?

Yeah.

So 40 something years of people pleasing, that led to me, sorry, my dog is whining, that led to me burning out severely.

He's got boundaries.

He's like, yeah.

I can throw him out of the room if he's, sorry.

No, he feels, I mean, he feels like one of his boundaries is not being met.

It is.

It is.

He doesn't know why we're not playing ball.

But yeah, I worked with an animal rescue for 12 years and was running my own business, was taking care of elderly parents.

I had all the responsibilities and I just couldn't take it one day.

I burned out, I was overwhelmed, I was depressed, and I saw oncoming headlights and thought that might be a good idea.

So thankfully, I pulled over to the side of the road.

Okay.

Yeah.

I didn't want to hurt anybody else.

I didn't want to leave my dogs without somebody, my parents without someone.

It sounds pretty intense.

It was a rough day.

It was definitely a rough day.

Even I had a depressive episode in my late 20s and I had never been suicidal.

So the fact that the thought of ending it even popped into my head was really upsetting.

And this is all because you feel overwhelmed by people wanting stuff and you couldn't say no to anybody?

Yeah.

I just got to the point where I was crying constantly.

I couldn't get a sentence out without tears.

I was short with people.

I was resentful with people that I loved and cared about.

Oh, that's the other thing.

You'll tell us how it works because often we can't communicate, and so we get angry.

Instead of saying just no and leaving it at that, right?

Our boundary, you're going to tell us how to do this.

We get angry.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was, I think, the biggest sign for me that something was wrong.

And if you're experiencing this right now, if you're feeling resentful, that's your body and your soul telling you something's wrong.

You're probably allowing something in your life that you don't want to or shouldn't be.

So that was like just a big indication for me.

And I cleared off my plate.

I took a month off from the rescue.

I focused on my mental health.

And a few weeks later, a few months later, I noticed my plate was full again.

And I was like, how did all of these responsibilities come back and why did they bring friends?

And that was the realization that like, hey, I don't actually have any boundaries.

I can't say no to people.

So it just keeps, it just keeps filling up.

And that was...

How did you figure out how to not only work this out, but then become an expert on it through, I guess, practicing it through, you saw changes in your own life, I'm guessing that it worked.

So like, oh, if this worked for me, it worked for other people?

Yeah.

So I learned through writing.

I'm a writer before anything else.

And it's just kind of how I process information.

It's how I see the world.

So when I had this realization, I was like, you know, I can't be the only person that has these people-pleasing problems.

And I was like, I'm going to write a book about it.

And that was like the kind of the impetus that I needed to do the research, talk to therapists, talk to coaches.

I interviewed a ton of women in my world that have really healthy boundaries.

And I found out that none of them were born that way.

They all had their own oncoming headlight moments that made them realize.

Well, it's hard when you're growing up and your parents are telling you what to do.

If you say no, you get punished.

And so we're not trained to really, I don't think, have a boundary as a kid.

Yeah, I think I always hesitate to throw parents under the bus because most of them are doing the best that they can.

Oh, yeah.

Completely.

Yeah, to give them credit.

Not all of them, but it's, we're not, they're not taught how to do this either.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And it's hard to teach somebody or model something that you yourself don't know.

So here we have all of these, you know, parents meaning to do well, but they're actually teaching us and they're actually showing us by their actions that we're not allowed to have boundaries.

And it's not something we should do, because we have to be nice and kind and sweet and all that crap.

Well, I tried telling your dad or your mom when you're a kid, they're coming into your bedroom.

No, I'm setting my boundaries.

You're not allowed in.

Yeah, right.

Right.

Yeah.

It doesn't usually end well.

So give me, I'm sorry.

Give me one second.

Go.

Okay.

Freedom.

So yeah, it's, it's, you know, it's something we need to, most of us need to learn as adults.

So what's the, how does it work?

How do we set a boundary?

What's the first step?

So you have the three C's of successful boundary communication on your website.

Walk us through it, how to set a boundary.

So that the very first step to setting boundary is actually believing that you have the right to.

I know I can, I can teach people how to actually set it and how to communicate it all day long.

But if you don't believe that you have the right to stand up for yourself, speak up for yourself, say no.

You feel guilty, like I know sometimes I do.

Yeah.

So really embracing the fact that like, hey, it's okay, you get to set a boundary.

Like you have permission, whoever's permission you need to actually say no to stand up for yourself.

So that's really the first step.

After that, you want to figure out where your boundaries are.

And when I work with clients, I always do an exercise called rear view mirror work, because we don't just wake up one day and go, oh, I have boundaries now, and I know exactly where they are.

Like that doesn't happen.

We have to kind of look at our past, look at our history, and figure out where were those times that we felt Icky.

And that is a technical term.

You can use that.

But, you know, when did you you reacted to something or you responded to something, and you don't like the outcome.

You don't like how it turned out or how you felt about it.

And usually when we find those areas, that's when we find...

Can you give me an example?

Like a common one?

Yeah, sure.

Let's see.

Let's say your friends ask you to go out for drinks, and the next morning you have an early meeting or an early class or whatever stage of life you're in, and you say yes because you don't want to let anybody down.

You don't want to disappoint them.

You always want them to invite you.

You want to be part of the tribe, if you will.

But the next day, you try to get up for your meeting or you try to get up for your class.

You're exhausted.

You didn't roll into bed until two o'clock in the morning.

You're potentially hungover.

Um, that situation is going to happen again.

Every situation that we, I experience...

It will be stuck in my head all day long.

I could have done better on this test.

It's my friends and it's my friends all day long.

Instead of taking responsibility for myself, I'm going to blame it on my friends.

Next time I see them, I'm going to let them know how I didn't do as well on the test.

And I'll still go out drinking with them is ironic thing.

Yes.

Yeah.

And that's the key to setting that boundary, is recognizing, hey, wait a second.

I've been here before.

It's like a blip in the matrix.

I've experienced this before.

I've had a friend call me and say, hey, let's go out.

And I had an early, early call time, whatever you want to call it in the morning.

And I didn't like how I felt the next day.

So I now have the opportunity to do things differently.

And there's a good chance you probably weren't a lot of fun to be out with either, because...

So is the strategy, though, I'm thinking in my head again to this scenario.

Yeah.

To instead overthink it, the first thing out of my mouth is no.

And then I'll think of how can I say it kindly and nice?

But the very first thing, can you want to go out for a drink this?

No.

And then I tell them, is that the strategy?

So I wouldn't I wouldn't say that.

That's not my not my recommendation.

My recommendation is always to pause.

Just just give yourself a minute to think.

If if you know what the answer is going to be after you take that brief, like take a breath, take a sip, take a bite of food, whatever you're doing, just pause, like just slap a hand over your mouth if you have to, whatever.

Just just stop that immediate response, because sometimes it's going to be I call it yes vomiting.

The only reason that I asked Sheryl or came up that is for me, it's kind of like I need something to train myself to say like a line, like a pickup line.

Yeah.

So I don't have to think about, oh, I'm in this uncomfortable situation.

What do I do?

But the pause is good for sure.

Try something if you absolutely have to say something, try something like, that sounds cool or interesting, completely non-committal.

Interesting.

Interesting.

Interesting.

Interesting.

Interesting.

But no.

And that gives you the opportunity to kind of go through it in your head and be like, is this something I want to do or I have to do?

Do I have the resources to do it?

And I call this the clash question.

Should I gay or should I know?

But the third one to that is going to be, am I willing to give something else up?

And ultimately, in this situation, if you decide to go out and you decide to drink and stay out late and all the things and have fun with your friends, what you are giving up is being functional the next day, being in a good mood, being alert, being on time for meeting, class, whatever it may be.

And do you have to have a logical reason or can you just say, I mean, sometimes I might say to my friends, I don't feel like it.

That's fine.

And not know why.

Yeah.

No, you don't have to know why.

If you don't feel like it, don't do it.

And your friends, the people that should be in your life, the people that you want to keep in your life, are going to be like, cool, we'll see you next time.

Oh, okay.

So perfect.

What do you do with those friends?

You know you have them, like, that ask you again.

You say no, and you're really clear.

You set your boundary, you're feeling really good.

And that's come on, Dan, it's, you know, it's just one drink.

Then you can go home and we won't be out that late.

Yeah.

So you're going to want to be consistent.

Because if you kind of backpedal on that, you're like, fine, all right, if it's only one drink, you're going to have an even harder time setting boundaries in the future.

So you want to be consistent.

You're like, no, sorry, I can't do it.

Most people are going to accept that.

They may kind of push back a little bit.

You know, oh man, you always come out, like something like that.

Yeah.

But most-

I have some friends that are really even my good friends.

Yeah.

It almost seems like what kind of friends do I have?

This is the third time you've asked.

And I'm like, now I'm doing it on purpose, just doing the boundary, just because I'm really clear what I want.

And I'm fascinated how you don't get that.

Like, what's going on?

What's going on here?

Yeah.

So you are going to have those people that keep pushing back, that refuse to respect your boundaries, and truthfully, they may not deserve to be in your life.

Yeah.

It sounds harsh, and it sounds like an unfair thing.

But if people don't respect your boundaries, after you've communicated them, clearly, you know, all of those things, you can't expect people to reach your minds.

But if you do communicate it, and they push back, and you say it again, and they push back, why are they in your life?

They don't respect you.

Yeah.

I had the same thought.

So can you ever set too many boundaries?

It's just a question that I came up with, I think, trying to research boundaries, and maybe somebody asked it, or I don't know where I got the question from.

I think that, I think, as with everything in life, you have to choose your battles.

Like you-

Sometimes I don't want to do something, but they're my friend, and I don't have a test tomorrow, and I'd rather stay home and watch a movie, but I could choose to have a drink with them.

I don't really drink, by the way, but I'd go out with them.

Yeah.

And have a diet coke or water and go with them, whatever, because I'm their friend.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know what?

Sometimes you may choose to do that.

Like you also don't want to be the person that never goes out, that never spends time with your friends, that they call you and they need you every once in a while, and you're like, nope, can't-

They just go, nope, we watched Daniel and Sheryl's course, and we watched Sheryl speak, and she goes, nope, nope, nope, no, it's not good.

That's actually a rigid boundary.

So if you think about it like a pendulum, so you got swinging to both sides, you've got porous boundaries, which is what we're most used to hearing about, the people pleasers, the yes, I'll do anything.

We've got porous on one side, on the other side, we've got rigid.

And that other side is the no, immediately no.

No, I won't do that.

I won't help you.

I don't want to do that.

I don't want to be involved.

I don't want to tell you anything about myself.

I don't want to ask for help.

It's this very like rigid way of being.

It's very protective of yourself.

I like the way you said it earlier, where you said part of the steps as you think about, what am I giving up?

It's not just no, because I'm a no man.

There is something I'm sacrificing that it's really going to effect me, or is significant, and there's a reason behind it.

Yeah, the why.

So we really want to shoot for that middle ground, that healthy boundary, is I'm going to evaluate life on a case by case basis.

It's not always yes, it's not always no.

I'm going to actually think about it, and I'm going to make an intentional decision.

And that's really the goal.

So let's talk about setting boundaries in business.

What's the benefit if you're working?

What's the boundary?

Let's do cover two types of business.

One, you're working in the office, you're an employee, and the other is for an entrepreneur.

So first, you go into the office.

I'm not sure what an example would be, but a difficult boss, say, a difficult boss.

What do you...

How is a boundary different in that regard?

A boundary is scarier in that regard, of course, because you feel like you're a promotion or your well-being is on the line there.

Oh, I've got one.

It says, what's the expression?

Work-life balance.

And he or she is throwing something else at me.

I know I'm going to have to do on the weekend.

And my kid's soccer game is on the weekend.

It's the playoffs, whatever.

And he's not getting it.

No, boss.

This, you know, my kid's soccer game is this whole week.

The whole weekend, Daniel?

Yeah, it's just one weekend.

I can't do that.

And he asked me again to do it.

Yeah, so there's a couple of different ways to handle this.

First one would be, you know, if they come to you on a Thursday, Friday, and you know, it's going to take you into the weekend.

There's, you can say something like, hey, you know what?

This actually won't be during my regular work hours because of how much is on my plate.

Is there something that we can move to next week so that I can take care of this right now for you?

So, the biggest thing is about making them realize that it is in their best interest.

It is in the company's best interest for you not to be overworked, exhausted, and resentful, and you don't say it like that.

But working with them, because sometimes they don't realize what you've got on your plate.

They don't know what you do on a day-to-day basis.

They're managing everything.

So I like the way you said that though, because I would spit it back out like, you know, boss, I will have a better report that makes you look better and is more professional if I can do it on half till Tuesday to do it, something like that.

Right.

And when is it actually due?

What actually has to be done?

Is there a piece of it that somebody else can help with?

So it's really not an immediate like, no, you know, it's not going to end well if you tell your boss straight up, no.

But if you use it as kind of like a springboard to a conversation, like, let me understand this project more.

Let me show you what I'm currently working on, and we can prioritize and see what's the most important thing for me to get done now.

I do want to spend this or I am spending this weekend at my child's soccer game.

It's very important to me that I'm there.

I'd be more than happy to do this on Monday.

That makes me the way you said that helps me, because I would start with I am.

This is certain.

I am spending.

Like you let your boss know, paint the picture.

I am spending the weekend with my kid's soccer game.

And then you lead into let's work around that.

Yeah, it's, you know, you want to, you really want to recognize that they have a goal.

You know, they need to get something done.

And you want to be compassionate regarding that.

You want to be understanding like, hey, I get that this has to be done.

Let's find something that works for both of us.

Yeah, that's one thing I forget that my boss, his boss is pushing him and his boss is pushing him.

And they're all chaotic.

None of them have a clue what they really need or what's really important.

Most of it's not, but they're all panicky as well.

Look, there's emergencies are going to happen.

You know, depending on what your job is, depending on what your role is, emergencies will happen.

And if your boss asks you to, you know, step up like once a year, again, we're going to choose our battles here.

You know, if it's not a weekend, that's an important soccer game or whatever it is.

Maybe you do say, okay, you know what?

I understand that this is a very pressing issue.

And if there's, you know, we've tried to workshop it and figure out another way.

If there's no other way, you know, I can come in for two hours or whatever it is.

The problem is once you do that, like it's kind of opening the door.

Yeah.

You might be the one person in the office that is not setting boundaries.

Everybody else is.

So your boss just, it's easier for him or her to come to you because they know they can.

You're not never going to give them an excuse to say anything.

But yes.

So and then colleagues, other office employees, that's a little easier, right?

Because they're not your boss.

So it's more of the personal strategy.

Yeah, it's easier.

You really want to understand that you have to get your work done.

It's okay to help other people.

It's amazing to help other people.

Like way to be a team player.

But if it's interfering with your workload, that's where the problem is going to come in.

That gives me an example to give you.

Since the pandemic's been over and people are going back to hybrid, I know a lot of people, they don't like to go in the office, especially if they're in management positions, because they get more done as the manager at home, just delegating.

And they go there, people want to stop in their office and just chit chat, and then they have to draw their boundaries.

Like, you know, I got work to do.

Yeah, so I actually call this an open calendar policy, as opposed to an open door policy, because there's a lot of people that will say, oh, my door is always open.

Come on in any time.

Truthfully, I mean, what is it?

I forget the exact number, but it takes us like 27 minutes to get back to a task when we've been distracted.

It's a crazy high number like that.

So if people are constantly coming in and interrupting you, you're never going to get your work done.

So instead of having an open door policy, come on in any time, let people know, yes, I am available to speak to, just grab a spot on my calendar.

Or you have the calendar, just the same calendar you use for anything else.

Yeah, I'm available or my door is open between 1 PM and 3 PM, Tuesday, Thursday, whatever it is, I'm just making stuff up.

It sounds like when you're in college and you're going to go see a professor, and what they used to call it when the student hours, when you're allowed to go to his office.

Office hours.

Office hours.

But in reality, it's a little different.

So I'm in the office at work, my door's open or closed.

It's glass.

It's a glass office, so people can see I'm there.

They knock on it if the door's not open.

What do they do if they come in anyhow?

And it could be important.

I might want to know.

But what if it's the kind that just wants to...

I know they're going to lead me into that they went camping this weekend.

Tell me all about it.

Yeah.

How do I cut it off and go, I've got work to do?

Hey, you know what?

I would love to hear about your weekend, but let's chat during lunch.

I'm in the middle of a project, and I can't be interrupted.

Oh, perfect.

That's similar to the previous example you gave in terms of how to start it.

Instead of starting with no, starting it with...

Starting with the why, end of a little bit.

Explaining it to them so they don't feel just shut out.

Yeah.

And I mean, look, obviously, I'm very sensitive to this because I do study it and teach it and all of that.

But I texted a friend one day, and I was like, hey, do you want to go to dinner?

And I just got a text back that said, no.

I mean, that's clean cut.

That's clean cut.

Yeah, it was.

But I would have felt better if it was, no, I already have plans.

No, I'm exhausted.

I want to stay home.

Anything, just any kind of explanation other than no.

Did you text her back and ask, what's up?

Are you okay?

You know, I should have.

And thank you for mentioning that.

No, I kind of just got a little offended.

It would make me wonder.

That's a little, like, how was your day?

Maybe she's just like having a bad one or that's okay.

So what about entrepreneurs?

One thing that's that came to mind is, is being authentic, meaning if you're in business and people ask you to do something, even if it's not your expertise, but you want the money.

You will go, yeah, I could do that.

Maybe boundaries comes to my mind and be an authentic.

And you know what?

That's not my expertise.

What's your take on boundaries, your experience or story for entrepreneurs?

So I think, look, I think we all kind of make this mistake, and I almost think we have to when we're starting out.

I will do anything as long as you pay me.

Like, I'm hard up for cash.

Like, I'm starting my business out.

Like, oh, sure, you need me to do this.

It's somewhat related to what I do.

I had a content writing business for free.

And in the very beginning, you know, I had people come to me that were like, oh, do you do grant writing?

Sure.

You know, because I was like, I just need the money.

Like, I got to keep a roof over my head.

But ultimately, and if we can learn this lesson without experiencing it, ultimately, you are actually damaging your brand when you do that.

You're not doing a good service for your client because you're not going to do a great job.

This isn't what you do.

I can't do grant writing.

I'm not good at that.

It is an entirely different skill than writing website content or blogs.

So you don't do a great job for the person.

You're probably resentful in the meantime, and that's going to come out in your interactions.

And now when they, you're hoping for a referral, you're hoping that they say, oh, hey, this person's great to work with.

But you probably weren't great to work with, and you probably put out a subpar product.

So for that, what's our example of how to express it, like besides just saying no?

You can say, and this is where networking really comes in handy.

You can say, you know what?

That's actually not in my wheelhouse, or that's not my ninja skill.

I do know someone who does grant writing or whatever it is.

Let me make an intro.

You know what's great about that?

Then whoever that is, they think of you as a resource and they're not going to forget you, if it's a good referral.

Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

So honestly, you know, really with any boundary, in the very beginning, you're going to get firmer if they don't listen.

But with any boundary, there's no reason you can't be kind.

Kind and clear and compassionate.

Like, oh, hey, I get this is what you need.

I'm not the right person for you.

You know, let me find somebody that is.

Let me make a recommendation.

Let me throw out a net and see if anybody does this.

Like you said, become a resource as opposed to just going, no, I don't do that.

Yeah.

And for those who are listening, Sheryl also has on her website a blog article, Seven Steps to Set Your Brand Boundaries.

So if you're not an entrepreneur, your brand, she's got seven steps on how you set your brand boundaries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And look, how you show up to the world, how people think of you when you're not in the room, it's all boundaries.

You know, I'm very careful on social media.

Do I have opinions?

Absolutely.

Do I have beliefs?

Absolutely.

Is it something that I need to put on a public forum?

Probably not.

I'm very true to my brand.

I'm very positive.

Like, you'll never see me complaining on social media.

Yeah, it comes to mind, part of social media thing is, it seems a lot of people will use their Facebook and mix their business with their Facebook and then the boundaries are pretty blurred.

Yeah.

So, you know, what is your brand?

And look, as an entrepreneur, especially a solopreneur, we are the brand.

So any way that you show up in the world is going to reflect on your brand, whether you're on, you know, personal time or company time.

So be cognizant of that.

You know, how do you want to show up?

How do you want to be seen?

And then stick to it.

That's great.

I think we covered a lot of ground here.

We did.

And what haven't we covered?

You're an expert in this.

You write blogs, books.

Well, I have your time.

And although I'm kind of clear, I can go back and listen to this and go, okay, it's personal or it's business or it's brand.

What else might you tell listeners to help them after having, you know, just to help them set boundaries in their personal and their business life?

Yeah.

So there's this concept that I love.

It's from a book called Crucial Conversations, and it's called The Fool's Choice.

And what it says is that we believe walking into a crucial conversation and I believe boundaries are crucial conversations.

We believe that we can either speak up or we can keep a relationship.

So we have this idea in our head that there is no I'm going to stand up for myself and strengthen the relationship.

And that's a very unhealthy way to look at it.

Because when we do set boundaries, when we do speak up, when we stand up for ourselves, we're actually strengthening our relationships.

You just made me think of another, like, I don't know if it's a real life example, but I was trying to think of, because I've definitely been one to value the relationship.

I'm scared or afraid I would lose a companion, a friend, somebody if I stay no.

But then when I speak up, like, I'm making this up.

But like, let's say it's like, do you want to go see a movie?

And I'm afraid to say no.

And then I go, you know, no, I would like to go to, I'm thinking of going to play in putt-putt golf.

Oh, I love putt-putt better than let's do that.

It's outside.

It's fun.

So by speaking up, I like made us both happier.

Yes.

And sometimes when you speak up, it's actually what the other person was thinking as well.

They didn't have the confidence to say it.

They thought you were doing the same.

Like they're afraid to lose you as a friend or a relationship.

Yes.

A couple of years ago, I had a friend that she asked me and another woman to put on like a summit with her.

We were going to do this event and everything.

And we were going along, going along, going along.

And I finally, I was like, you know what?

This actually is not a good use of my time because we're all going to be offering something and it's just overwhelming.

And there were reasons behind it.

But when I said that, one, I got an email from the other woman that was involved that said, thank you.

I was thinking that I just didn't know how to say it.

And two, the woman who asked us actually said, oh my God, I'm so glad you said that.

My coach and I were talking and she said it was a really bad idea.

And I just, I'd already asked you guys and I didn't want to make things weird.

So sometimes you really are actually speaking up for everybody, so don't be afraid of it.

And then on the flip side, it comes to mind those people that are so good at this, you almost like they get everyone to do what they want all the time.

Like you can't kid.

And it's always because there's almost assertive in there.

Then there, let's do this instead, to which you have to be able to set your own boundaries and speak up.

Yeah, so don't confuse boundaries and manipulation.

Those are entirely different things.

And if you're bowling over somebody with your opinions and your desires, then you're not setting boundaries.

You're actually disrespecting theirs.

Is there anything else we haven't talked about?

You want to add?

Her book is You Had Me at No.

It almost sounds like it's a positive thing, like a relationship, a partner in a relationship.

It is.

Like, you had me at Hello.

You had me at Hello.

That's where it came from.

Okay.

Yeah.

You had me at No.

How setting healthy boundaries helps banish burnout, repair relationships, and save your sanity.

Her website is sherylgreenspeaks.com.

It'll be in the show notes, the book and your website.

You do speaking primarily, I think, besides being an author, because you love to write, because it helps you with your ideas.

Then you take those ideas and you, you do keynotes on them?

I do.

I do keynotes and I do workshops.

So going into businesses, nonprofits, helping them, all of them learn to set healthy boundaries and how to accept healthy boundaries, which is the other side of the coin.

Seems like this would be really helpful at work.

When I used to work for a, I worked as an engineer for a Fortune 50 company at one time.

And for all the training they gave us, some of the simple stuff like this, it would help so much.

I don't think was in there.

Design of experiments was in there.

You know, we're engineers.

Failure analysis and stuff like that.

Not a whole lot of communication.

So it's good stuff you're teaching, Sheryl.

Thank you.

And wish you the best.

And thanks for being on my show.

Awesome.

Thank you so much.

Have a great day.