Think Differently. Solve the Impossible.

Show Notes

Michael J Dorfman
http://www.michaeljdorfman.com
https://www.facebook.com/michaeldorfman42
https://substack.com/@mike82

It's Information Warfare - The Battle for Truth and Freedom
On Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/INFORMATION-WARFARE-GOVERNMENTS-CORPORATIONS-INDUSTRIES/dp/B0D2H46269

The Thriving Vegan
On Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/THRIVING-VEGAN-Discover-Foods-Loves/dp/1095677667

Transcript

My guest today is Michael Dorfman, Michael's 82 and great health and thriving.

He's going to share with us his diet and lifestyle for what he says has enabled him to live to a ripe old age, free of chronic diseases, full of them and vigor.

He says he contributes his health to a plant-based nutrition diet and a healthy lifestyle.

His book, The Thriving Vegan, promotes the health benefits of whole plant-based foods and healthy lifestyle choices.

His latest book is Information Wars, The Battle for Truth and Freedom.

We may also dive into what he says is misinformation, the food and pharmaceutical industries spread.

This promises to be an engaging and interesting conversation.

Welcome to my show, Michael.

Thank you very much.

So, whatever you're doing seems to be working for you.

You're looking good.

Before we dive into the vegan diet and other things, what are your top three things you believe contributed to your health and longevity?

Maybe that's plant-based.

Would it take a moment to think about the top three things that make it happen for you?

Well, let me take a moment.

Yeah.

Well, one thing is the plant-based nutrition.

That's the one thing that's the major thing.

I think the other thing is discovering that the self-healing power of our bodies, that we don't have to depend upon drugs and doctors so much as we usually do.

And the other thing was the opportunity I had to help a person who was given six months to live, and she ended up living close to nine years.

And that was because of the lifestyle changes, which included plant-based nutrition.

That inspired you, basically.

Yeah, well, what happened is that I became a whole food plant-based in, well, 16 years ago.

And that was for me.

That's what, you know, I've been really enjoying that, and it's been really helping me with my health.

But it was this person that Beatrice was her name.

She lived in Mexico, too.

And it was her, the possibility that I had, the opportunity I had to help her, that really inspired me to spread my message, you know, talk to other people about it.

Then you write your book.

Yeah, write my book, exactly.

See, yes.

When you say 16 years ago, you started this plant-based healthier lifestyle, right?

Right.

And then, and that was number one.

And then I'm trying to tie in when you, you fixed yourself first, healed yourself first, and then you helped your friend, and then you wrote your book.

Was there a time when you were sick and not as healthy?

Did you say 16 years ago you started?

Well, actually, I was a vegetarian since 1976.

Oh, that's a long time.

That's a long time.

So it was like 30 some odd years before I became plant-based.

But I was getting sick every year.

Even though I felt well, I was getting not terribly sick, but I would have colds and congestion, sore throats and at least once or twice a year.

And my brother, he's, well, he still lives in New York.

He's 89 years old.

And he was because he had been plant-based for about 25 years before I became.

So you were vegan for a long time.

Rick, what is vegan versus plant-based mean?

OK, well, vegan is you don't eat any animal products.

No milk, too.

No milk and cheese.

No animal products at all.

And but most of the people who are vegans are there for other reasons, like protecting animals or the planet.

OK, so Michael, if I may, I've got the vegan, no animals.

But then what's different with plant-based?

Because what's left if you don't do animals?

Well, it all depends what you eat.

I mean, you can eat potato chips is plant-based, and you can eat donuts and cakes and white flour and, you know, white rice or, you know, white bread.

So it's not, you can eat vegan and yet not eat healthy, in other words.

Well, that doesn't answer my question on how it's different from plant-based.

What I really want to know is if plant-based is just another word for something that's a subset of vegan or something like that.

Well, it's interesting because the name of my book is The Thriving Vegan.

So and now I'm saying that you can be a vegan and not eat healthy.

So plant-based is really for people who are focusing on their health.

That's number one.

Not so much on the ethical problem with how you treat animals and-

Michael, this is what I think one of the problems with the world is.

We have these labels, which so basically it's ironic you write about misinformation.

That would be misinformation, not disinformation, because it's not intentional, but it's maybe intentional because I understand now.

I used for years, and there is an ecological reason.

It's staggering how much water and land it takes to make one hamburger in terms of a cow grazing during this lifestyle.

The amount of water that people can't drink because the cows and the vegan movement may have started ecologically about, and it's the wrong thing to kill animals, definitely inhumane.

You're just reframing the word to get away from its sub-prime.

I appreciate, respect that.

The priority is your health before you can take care of animals and the planet.

You got to make sure you're healthy.

Got it.

Okay.

All right.

So basically, it is vegan.

Yeah, it's vegan.

I sometimes call it whole food, plant-based vegan.

Uh-huh.

I call it whole food vegan because vegan is plant-based, but it's whole foods.

You go as much as possible to get away from processed foods.

So that's the difference.

Whereas many vegans are not that, it's not that important what you eat.

The most important thing is how you treat the animals.

And I would say that's the majority of the people who are vegans.

Okay.

So when you said you weren't in as good a health on the vegan diet until you switched to plant-based, though that presupposes there is actually a difference in the types of food you're eating.

Well, but also when I was a vegetarian, I ate meat and dairy.

So then you weren't a vegan.

Wait a second.

A vegetarian is not eating meat, but you can be a vegetarian and eat cheese.

Oh, okay.

So it's not eating meat, but you can, yeah, you can, that's the people who are vegetarians, they most of them eat the cheese and milk and dairy products.

Okay.

Then there is a difference in the two terms.

Vegans can eat dairy.

They can eat some animal products.

They just can't eat the animal.

No, I'm talking about vegetarian.

Vegetarians don't eat meat, but they do eat dairy.

Okay.

Vegans don't eat meat or dairy.

And is there a difference between vegan and plant-based or vegan is plant-based?

Vegan is plant-based.

The difference between people who are vegetarians, which I was a vegetarian, but that got me...

Let me go over this.

I was a vegetarian, but I ate the dairy products.

I ate yogurt.

I ate...

But you're answering my question now is possibly, why were you not as healthy before you were eating dairy products and other animal byproducts just weren't eating the meat?

Right.

No, I wasn't eating any meat.

But I was the dairy and I was getting sick and my brother, who was an actually a plant-based, he told me, well, maybe it's the dairy that you're having the problems.

And but I didn't accept that because we really, we love our, I mean, I did, I love our cheese.

I love my ice cream, the dairy.

Yeah, ice cream.

Sure.

So I couldn't get it, give it up.

So any after a while, he said, well, why don't you read this book by T.

Colin Campbell called The Trying to Study?

I don't know.

I don't know if you heard of it.

Say it again.

China, China study, China, China study.

Yeah, he was when Shao Anlai was the dictator of China.

He's the leader of China.

He eventually died of cancer.

But before that, he, he wanted to do this study, a complete study of China.

What was the problem with cancer in China?

So T.

Colin Campbell from Cornell University had been studying this.

And he was contracted by China to do this China study with other doctors from China.

And he did, it was called the China study.

And this was a 20 year study in started in 1980.

It was a 20 year study and the whole idea he went, went through, and I think it was like over 160 different municipalities in China, mostly rural.

And he did studies over a 20 year period to find out why is it that there's some parts of China that don't get cancer as much as others or very rarely get cancer as cancer is very, was very, you know, happened very often or most, most of the times it was in the big cities.

But in the rural counties and municipalities in China, people weren't getting cancer or very rarely.

And this was the study and it was because of the different, the amount of meat that was being the animal protein.

In the rural areas, I would expect it to be more dairy, more cows or goats.

But it wasn't that, one of the conclusions was, is that when you can't afford it, you don't eat meat.

So the people in the rural areas, the poor people, the people eating in the country sides.

So they're not going to eat the cow and the goat that's giving them the milk.

Well, I don't know if they, maybe they sold it because it was, it was sort of a stigmatizing that when you made it, that you were in a certain level of standard of living, then you eat meat because that was happening in the West also, in the United States.

It was sort of a label.

So keep in mind when I go where I'm headed now, Michael, that I totally believe in the misinformation and that they keep information from us and that cancer can be cured.

Yeah.

But I have to ask, especially for skeptical people, but also comes to my mind, how do we know, Daniel?

What about a big city?

How did they rule out environmental factors, like just the air pollution in the cars and the smog and the electricity and all the power lines and stuff, and other environmental factors causing cancers in a big city compared to why they don't have men rural farm, farm areas and such?

Well, you know, I think I don't know, I'm not, you know, I don't know that much about that, but I can go back to what's happening today.

And maybe sort of a proof of it is that the healthiest and longest living people on the planet live in rural areas.

And, you know, whether it's, you know, the different, I don't know if you've heard of The Blue Zones, The Five...

Yeah, what's The Blue Zone?

The Blue Zone was a book written by Dan Buettner.

I think it was around 2012.

He was sent by National, he worked for National Geographic, and they sent him out and he did a two-year travel study for National Geographic to find out where the healthiest and longest-living people on the planet live.

That came out to be The Blue Zones, which is...

The Blue Zones included Okinawa, Japan, Sardinia in Italy, Icaria in Greece, Loma Linda in California, and Nicoya in Costa Rica.

And this whole idea was to find out what these people...

what their lifestyle was like to see, you know, if there were similarities between all of these city or urban areas, not urban areas, rural areas.

And they found this whole list of different lifestyles, which I follow today.

And this is not only that...

What I saw real quick, we'll come back to the diet.

Yeah.

What are the lifestyles?

Because one thing that comes to mind is if I got to live on a farm, fresh air, away from the noise and the pollution and the people, less stress, don't have to drive to work every day.

Right.

Get to watch the sunset on the hill behind my house.

Okay.

You know, and listen to the river flow, the creek, whatever.

I've got, there has to be water for these people.

That my mental state would be healthier.

So, what other lifestyles differences did they find before the food?

Well, it's interesting because the similarity they found was that all of these places, including the rural areas of China and Japan and parts of Africa, were basically plant-based.

That was one of the similarities.

And I would say, you know, 90% of their diet, not all of them had 100% plant-based, but at least 90% plant-based.

They ate some meat, some places like in Okinawa, you know, places that were near the oceans.

They had fishing, so they had some fish.

But that was one of the basics and similarities of all these places, including the healthiest, you know, people live in rural China and rural Japan, where we don't find the same diseases as we find in people on the standard American diet.

And the other, but they were other things, which you had mentioned, which are very important, which I've adapted to my own lifestyle, you know.

And one was having an active lifestyle, whereas you go out and you have nature and you move around a lot, the people work, they don't retire.

They work till very late in life, like we do in the West, you know.

Another thing was, like you're saying, stress.

They live a life more free of stress because they're in the countryside.

They don't have the problems that big cities may have.

The other thing, which is very important, they belong to a caring group.

In other words, they share with each other.

They don't live alone.

They have a group where they feel part of a group, whether it's a religious group or some other group that they do things together.

And that's another thing.

It's a really important thing.

Basically, they feel loved, supported, support each other.

And they are supported because you could see it.

And it's interesting because Dan Buettner, who broke the book, he recently went back to these places.

This is like 15 years later, almost, or about 14 years later.

He went back to these places and he did each one of these blue zones.

And the blue zone, this is, it's a lift to 100.

The Secret of the Blue Zones is available on Netflix.

So you can see this trip and he goes back there.

And there's so many people living over 100 years old that are so productive still, you know, so, and they have rarely have the same diseases as we do have in the west.

So he went back there and now they're doing, they are doing, there are blue zone communities throughout the United States now, trying to copy this thing.

So what I do, because, you know, I live in a city here, so I do some of the things that I do.

I meditate.

I've been meditating for more than 45 years.

Meditate.

I do exercise.

One of the things I saw when in Loma Linda, you know, he visits Loma Linda and-

You live in Mexico, I think, right?

Yeah, I live in San Miguel de Allende, which is like over 10,000 Americans live here.

It's one of the most popular places that people retire to in Mexico.

So anyway, I play pickleball, and I'm a fanatic of pickleball.

So there's over two, I think it was close to 200 people who play pickleball here in San Miguel de Allende.

And so I was watching The Blue Zones and they went to Loma Linda, California, and they were showing that one of the most popular things they do is play pickleball, the old people to keep, you know.

We got pickleball here, too, and I didn't know what it was until I moved here, and that's what I will see during the week, Dave, and I'll see retired people playing.

Oh, you haven't played it?

I must have played it because in my younger friends, the guys in their 20s, my rock climbing partners, I'm sure they made me play and I'm sure like a lot of sports, like tennis, I'll drag around the court.

I'm not a competitive sports person, totally for fun.

Like I played once, but yeah.

Well, I'm competitive.

It's too much work for me.

I'm competitive and that's also my downfall because I hurt myself sometimes.

I'm playing and I have to stay, take a rest for a month or so.

So I have to get some now I'm back again.

So I'm doing it more because it's very healthy sport.

Well, all racquetball sports.

Well, it gets you moving around a lot.

Yeah, and also using muscles that you wouldn't use normally, just even going to a gym or something like that.

So I've been playing that.

But these are some of the things and also I do hanging.

Hanging from your hands?

Hanging from I have a bar in the house.

And the other thing, I just went through a very difficult, because you're talking about if I was sick, I had a problem.

I hurt myself playing pickleball.

And it wasn't just from pickleball.

It was like I'm going to be 83 in January.

Well, you go fast, you turn the wrong way too fast.

You could be young and pull something if you're not stretched out.

So it ended up I did a CAT scan because I had terrible pains in my back, in my lumbar area.

I was in such pain that my wife had helped me put my shoes on.

I got a terrible pain.

I couldn't sleep without taking pills.

I didn't know what to do and they were talking about surgery.

So it ended up that a friend of mine had an inversion table.

You know what they are?

The ones that you turn upside down.

Okay.

You're hanging upside down.

You're hanging upside down.

I did that and in three days, I was painless because it separated all of the vertebrae.

Now, today, yesterday was the first day back playing pickleball again with no pain.

Oh, that's great.

So back to the diet.

Yeah.

I had someone on my podcast a couple months ago that was about plant-based.

I saw that.

Yeah.

And it was shocking to see not a lot, but a few negative comments.

And then I asked people will tell me more and they didn't really.

So I don't know if they just what happened.

Where I'm going with this is every diet you can imagine I've tried.

Yeah.

So when I was in Oregon in the middle of winter, what's cold and rainy all winter, which is when you really want something hot, I've been on the raw vegan.

Raw, that means not even cooked.

Nothing cooked and all plant-based.

And what happened was I couldn't keep the weight on.

I'm talking like I'm already thin, and you get protein from the nuts and stuff.

And then on a couple of years before, when I was just doing the vegan, it was my energy level, like I had to eat some meat.

So I discovered this book called Eat Right for Your Blood Type.

Have you ever heard that one?

Yeah, sure.

So my question to you is, since you know about it, that's great.

What's your opinion on that?

And are you a type O that they say theoretically needs some meat?

Or are you another type that theoretically can be okay on a plant-based?

Well, I'm a positive.

Oh, so you are a plant-based one.

Real quick, I'm not the expert on this.

I just read up on it yesterday to theoretically, completely theoretically, mind you, nobody knows for sure.

It's just a theory that makes common sense.

The people that write these kind of books, okay, type O was meat eaters.

The first humans, type O, then came in theory, the farmers, the type A's or B's who could live on just vegetables, and then the middle class, which is the type that omnivores can do either well.

But in theory, type O's from your genetics need, that's just a theory now, some meat.

I may only eat a hamburger or meat twice a year, and then fish every other month, but I feel I really need it.

And the reason I'm asking this, Michael, is great.

You know something about it, because I want you to give me your opinion or advice for those people that are type O, and maybe what if they do need a little bit like the Mediterranean to add some fish?

How do we not throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, if we're going, no, don't plant-based, plant-based.

It made me live to be 100.

Well, just to start off, my wife is type O and she's been a vegan for 16 years as well.

She's 79 years old.

I could bring her in here.

But 79 years old and she's an incredible vegan cook.

I mean, she even cooks without the oil.

A lot of books have been written.

I don't know how to comment the same thing with the Atkins diet and the South Beach diet and for me it's like you could try.

I think people, you could try diets and see if it works.

To me, the most important thing and what to me, for me is that you can be 40, 50, 60 years old and you should feel healthy.

Pretty much even whatever you eat, unless you're eating really terrible.

But to me, it gets to the point where most of the people by the time in their mid-70s, they have at least one chronic disease.

Oh, yeah.

Or they're dead.

Or they're dead.

That's why.

That's the life expectancy now keeps going down.

It's really bad, like you say, I mean, literally 70 here.

They're either people are like you and good health, just fine, plant-pickable, or every other week they're in the hospital for something serious.

Always in pain, always on drugs.

It's, there's no in-between really for, it seems, a lot of the people in America.

Yeah.

And in your 70s, well, that's what the life expectancy is.

You go to other places, like talk about countries, cities in the blue zone.

People are very healthy in their 80s.

So we have to get by these 70s.

And so to me, you should be healthy in your 40s, 50s because it's not reached to the point as you're getting older, more and more possibilities that eventually these diseases are going to come in.

And that's why you have to be eating the right thing, and also living a healthy lifestyle.

Now, one thing I want to mention is that this whole thing about man could eat, man has eaten, they lived on fish, they lived on meat, and during the time of the, what do you call it, paleo years.

And so, we're omnivores, human beings are omnivores, obviously, because men have lived, people have lived on meat.

But to me, the most important thing is, okay, human beings are omnivores, but human beings are very special.

We're not like other omnivores, because human beings are more developed, and we live, we can adapt to anything.

Human beings can adapt to anything.

That's why we're all over the world.

We can live in the ice, we can live in the worst heat, we're the only animals that really live everywhere.

And so, we can-

Your wife has adopted to your diet.

She's a typo, but she's eating just plant-based stuff.

Yeah.

When you said she cooks without oil, it reminds me of another exception to what I was to my question about, don't you need meat?

And that was one of my climbing partners who, he had a serious head injury, and he had to teach himself how to read and speak again.

He's perfectly fine now.

And he did that over two years on nothing but the, what you just mentioned your wife does.

Because he cooks up vegetables and rice.

Delicious.

What's the recipe?

Without oil, zero oil, just water.

I'm like, how is it possible?

There's not even water when you cook these vegetables.

This is amazing.

Tell me the recipes.

And he's like, Dan, it's just vegetables.

And you add some rice and beans, beans.

Must be where he gets his protein.

He's in super good shape.

But he is still able to keep his muscle mass, and he loves it.

He swears by it.

I did ask him what type of blood he is, though.

Come to think of it, I'm going to have to do.

It seems like a personal question.

Yeah, I just, you know, I don't know.

I just mentioned what I believe, you know, my experience.

And let's jump into the disinformation.

You say, our bodies self-healing powers are a better option than pharmaceutical drug dependency.

I completely agree.

No sense getting hooked on a drug and paying for it and worrying about what happens if you don't get it.

Tell me what your second book is about some factual history on what you're finding, what you mean when the food in the pharmaceuticals aren't being forthcoming and what they say.

Well, the book is It's Information Warfare, The Battle for Truth and Freedom.

And I think it goes back to the first time I noticed where there was manipulation of information.

And the reason that information is manipulated, it's manipulated by groups that are looking at the bottom line, they're looking to where they can make their money, and they have their people who invest in them.

They're also competitive, by the way.

And they're also competitive.

They're very good.

They have, that's their number one thing is, you know, what are we going to do to beat the competition?

So they're driven by coming up with clever ways to do so.

So it started out, my first time, I realized what was going on was with the cigarette companies.

That goes back to, you know, cause I go back all the way to the 40s and the 50s.

So, and that time, I mean, everybody smoked.

I did, I smoked when I was 12 years old.

I personally know one of the lawyers that worked in one of the states in America, when there was the settlement, the billion dollar settlement.

Yeah, and didn't change a thing, really.

It's ironic, all that work in Africa, we're gonna see the tobacco companies.

They were lying, of course, doing things.

And what's changed?

There's a different label on cigarettes.

That's it.

Yeah.

Much people made a bunch of money off of it in the legal process.

Yeah.

So cigarettes companies are still thriving, you know, and when the, but it was what they did is, what's his name?

I don't know if you ever heard of Edward Bernays.

No.

Okay.

Edward Bernays was the nephew of Sigmund Freud.

And he lived in New York and he took Freud's psychological, the unconscious and how you can sell products for companies.

How you can advertise him.

Advertise.

He's, yeah, he's called the creator of propaganda.

He wrote this book.

Every drug commercial you see, there's people swimming at a party, horseback riding, kayaking, and they've got some serious disease and it's all how wonderful your life can be when it has nothing to do with the drugs.

And then the whole time this, this fine print on all the side effects and might kill you.

You saw that.

That, yeah, that's psychological, right?

What does this whole commercial, people are having a swimming party have to do with my diabetes drug or whatever it is?

Right.

And then the next advertisement will you be for processed foods to make you sick and then you have to get the drug to take care of it.

But you know, there are only two countries that where you're allowed to advertise drugs on TV.

I don't know if it's the United States and New Zealand.

Yeah, we're talking about solutions here, which I love it.

I just think, why don't if people just thought like, what does that have to do with the swimming pool with my disease and this drug?

And what about all the fine print that says it could kill me or make me very sick?

Just say no, change the channel, walk away, make coffee instead of watching the commercial.

Instead of a law that says you can't have something, the reason is when you approach it from that point of view, besides freedom of speech, you're trying to micro-control stuff, and there's always going to be a loose end somewhere or something, you throw the baby out with the bathwater or free speech.

I think people just should think like you did, like you wrote your book.

It's common sense.

Don't buy into it.

Think for yourself.

Think for yourself.

It's not easy.

It is really though.

If you think about it, the trouble comes in.

My first, it happens when, I don't know if it happens too in Mexico, but if I go climbing for a long time, I come back, I haven't watched TV.

Oh my God, I'm like, whoa, what is going on on television?

It's easy.

You just take a moment and go, and go, trust yourself.

Go, no, I'm not crazy.

That's just bizarre and I'm not going to do that.

But instead people, after that moment passes, they think, oh, I'm not that smart.

Must be on TV for a reason.

It wouldn't be on TV unless it was true, right, Michael?

This is a good, this is a popular one.

Wouldn't be on the news unless it was true, right?

Yeah, I see.

Right.

It has to be true.

And my neighbor's taken that drug.

I asked him about it.

So that means therefore that commercial, that swimming party must have actually happened.

I mean, just trust yourself.

Don't buy into it.

But that's really the name of the game.

Trust yourself and just, but like you were saying, if things are repeated over and over and over again, it becomes the truth and people just-

That's that psychology we're speaking of.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They studied that Sigmund Freud guy and like, well, you have to say it again and again and again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, the one of the fans of this of of of Edward Brede's was the what's his name?

Goebbels, the propaganda minister of Hitler, you know, and one of his saying, what if he says, how do you make people get people to believe?

You just keep he say his name.

One of his quotes was, if you say a lie once, it's the truth.

It's a lie.

But if you repeat the lie a thousand times, it becomes the truth.

Yeah.

So what?

And you wrote a whole book on this.

Besides what we just said, trust your first instinct, except you're going to hear it again.

So now my I'm getting worn down.

My mind's getting worn down.

What are your tips from doing your research writing your book on how to to stick to yourself, how you feel, your gut feel instead of buying into people trying to sell you stuff.

It's not the best for you.

Right.

I have, you know, I have this.

I actually I wrote it in my first book.

And it was the question is, what is our greatest gift?

And the greatest gift where we have is the gift of life.

Because without life, there is nothing, you know, we're not alive.

So that's to me is the greatest gift.

And then there's another gift, which is we don't we take it for granted and we don't consider it as a gift.

And that is our the human body.

Because the human body is where our life lives.

Without the human body, when you know there is nothing either.

So that I just try to remember that.

And that's what's gotten me into this thing of like, the body is is is a miracle.

What I mean, Michael say I do have a disease.

Yeah.

What's a common one that people take drugs for that?

One of these drug commercials might be for diet type two diabetes, heart disease, type two diabetes.

And what's a common thing?

Okay.

Type two diabetes.

And nothing's working for me.

I see the commercial the third time.

I'm going to be tempted to take it, right?

How do I not?

How do I stay in my mindset where no, don't do it.

If you do forget the commercial, go study that medicine, do your own homework on it.

Your doctor might actually be getting a cruise, a bonus points if he sells enough of these prescriptions.

You can't trust him.

You don't know.

Maybe his family is twisting his arm.

Yeah, dad, we're only one patient, one prescription away from going on a cruise.

How do you do it?

How do you stay away from the propaganda?

I guess you have to do your own research.

You really have to do your own research.

And I have this very poor relationship with doctors.

I really stay away from them because, for example, type 2 diabetes, the best that they usually do for you is they give you, they say, well, this is the drug you take, and you have to take this drug for the rest of your life, but you can manage it.

And when I learn, I just learn from my research and see tests, and I do reading on this, and I find out that you can reverse type 2 diabetes.

And I've tried, believe me, I've tried, sometimes people listen, but there are people that they have type 2 diabetes, but for them, it's harder to change a lifestyle.

It's so easy to get a pill for an ill.

And especially...

Yeah, it's mental.

It's the mental challenge, the mindset.

It is going to be so much harder to change your mind and lifestyle than just take the pill.

Because they believe it's so hard when it really isn't that hard.

That's a good point.

Yeah, and also when you have your doctor on a pedestal, because the doctors believe they should be on a pedestal, you know, they're like the god and...

Well, at that point, they are.

At that point, I totally give kudos to the doctor.

Give them what they want.

It's like they're not helping themselves any other way.

They're going to die.

We got to help them.

We can't let them die.

So if they don't want to try to keep themselves alive, then yeah, that's what your job is, to give them a prescription.

And you have to, in order to change, you really have to be willing to, it takes a little work to make an effort to do some research, find out, when you get to the point, if you find that I don't want to continue taking these drugs.

And it's the same thing with heart disease.

That's what they'll do.

They just, well, you're on this drug, and you have to take it, you're on, you know, and that's the only answer for you.

But, and we'll just have to put a stent in every year or two.

And, you know, that's what happened with Bill Clinton when he was, because he was, had a heart, heart attack.

And he, well, we had, he went through the surgery, and then he had, I think it was one or two stents put in.

And then he decided that he didn't want to have stents because you're on stents for the rest of your life every few years, because you're not getting rid of the cause of it, the root cause, which is your lifestyle and your diet.

And he decided to get off of the stents.

And then he read the book.

It's the same book that I recommended for this woman, which is Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Caldwell Esselstyn.

And that's what he did.

And so he became basically, you know, plant-based and he's still around and he's not getting stents anymore.

He's not 100% vegan, you know, but they don't have to be, you know, you could just, the main thing is do something different.

And then see, because if you're on a, if you have type 2 diabetes, just losing weight, you know, is going to help you.

Well, you know, the other guest I had on Plant-Based, I invited him because at first I'm like, you know, I don't know if this is an interesting topic.

And I saw the before and after picture of how basically obese, I mean, he's-

He lowered a ton of pounds.

I saw that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was like shocking.

Like, wow.

Like, would it like kind of like you, like whatever you're doing and it works.

So people can throw stones at you if they want.

But look at you, would they rather you be in the, you know, in the recliner watching TV?

Like you can't, you barely fit in the recliner or how you are now.

Except that for this blood type thing, which may be like you say, you can get over it or honestly, I don't see what the, you know, the Mediterranean diet is pretty good compromise.

You know, meat once a month or something like that.

Definitely will help you out.

It's better than what the standard American diet is.

So yeah, especially the takeout foods, which, you know, I don't know if anybody who would argue that there's, those are healthy, which you can get a healthy hamburger to take out place or anything healthy.

So more about the information though, because in terms of solutions, somehow one of my efforts, my goal is to inspire people, teach them how to think different.

Like instead of just tell them, you know, you can't trust what you read.

We, you're going to read something, you need to read something to do your research.

So how, when you're writing your book on the misinformation, do you have any tips, suggestions for how people can tell when they're being manipulated so pharmaceutical or a food company can sell you something versus when it's honest information?

You know, in the book, in the second book, I cover the types of manipulation.

People either have, I don't know if you're conscious dissonance.

Yes, I know that word.

Tell people what it means.

Conscious dissonance means that basically that it's hard to keep two opposing, conflicting ideas in your mind at the same time because it's very uncomfortable.

One example is smoking cigarettes.

Smoking cigarettes, you're addicted to it and you want to keep smoking cigarettes, but then you have the other idea, conflicting idea that cigarette smoking causes cancer.

So-

And the one that's cigarette, the opposing argument that's also, that's the dissonance part.

Cigarettes don't cause cancer, haven't been proven to cause cancer, and you're wanting to believe that one instead.

Yeah.

Well, that's what you do.

You take out the one that says it causes cancer, and you rationalize that I can continue.

Well, there's another example where you may-

Let's stay on that one.

Okay.

There's conflict of interest.

They're all over the place.

I'm trying to think of another example in life.

It's not just food.

There's life conflicts, interests, you're so embedded.

Say it's your job, what you do at work, and you make something that's actually harming people, but you need your job to support your family.

You're going to be, if they say, hey, you know what you make, it's polluting the water in the river, in the city, or the air.

And you're going to be conflicted to think, no, it can't be that bad.

Because otherwise, if you admit it is bad, you'd have to quit your job and then your family would go hungry.

How do people, how do people cope with that?

Because they're going to run into this when they're trying to find healthy food and lifestyle choices too.

How do we get over cognitive dissonance?

You get over confident, well, first of all, you have to recognize it, that that's what's going on.

But what you mentioned is, it's happened during the whole thing of the pandemic.

That there were people, like you mentioned about the jobs, there were doctors that were against certain treatments, and they were told, well, if you have to go along with this or else we're going to fire you.

So doctors went along with that.

And the ironic thing is the people that didn't, but they're not very smart people, those are the ones that got the limelight and the praise and heroes, and they were elevated like these really smart person is on TV, he's our leader in this whole pandemic, follow him.

Only because we chose him to be on TV, because he's following what we want him to say, and he's actually not that smart a guy.

He's not an idiot, but he's not as smart as the people that get fired because they wouldn't speak their truth, right?

Or they wanted to speak their truth.

But that's what happened to me.

I just said, well, but when I mentioned the thing with the cigarette smoking and then the food, and we were being told that you only drugs we use for the...

I started doubting, and I started questioning, well, if they're lying about this...

That's what happened to me when I wrote the book, and I mentioned about this friend of mine who lives nine years instead of six months, after she had a heart attack.

Did I mention that?

I think I mentioned that.

You didn't mention six months of heart attack, no.

Oh, I didn't.

Let me just give a...

It was a friend of mine, and she went through the heart disease, and she had a quadruple bypass surgery, and they told her that they couldn't put...

She went back a year later because she had a repeat again.

They went...

She went to the same hospital, the same doctor, and they wanted to put a stent in, but they couldn't put the stent in because it was too narrow.

In other words, the vein that replaced the original artery, they couldn't fit the stent in.

And they told her that they couldn't do...

There was nothing they could do, and that she should go home, not to exercise too much and take care.

But what they didn't tell her, and they told my wife, who was her closest friend, and her son, was that she had about six months to live.

And I had finished reading this book, the same one that Bill Clinton read, Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, and I spoke to her, because I had already been a vegan for like two years.

And I lent it to her, well, I gave it to her, and she went on a vegan diet, and she lived for nine years.

And to me, it was like, it was a mindblower because, you know, I just saw that why isn't diet and lifestyle the number one go-to for doctors?

And then it was like, why didn't, maybe it was true for other diseases as well.

And then I found a high blood pressure, you can do naturally, you can do type 2 diabetes.

So this is all the misinformation or the, you know, the manipulation of information to keep people going, whether it's, you know, from the processed food companies or it's the drug companies.

They, the bottom line, their stockholders are more important than your life, you know.

Well, actually, that brings up a tangent that people's 401Ks, their life savings to retires, ironically invested in a lot of these companies, which is another cognitive dissonance thing with my stockbroker.

Like, you sure you want to pull out all those companies, Daniel?

It's your retirement.

Well, they make meat and they make this and that and they make drugs.

What did you get me into?

It's really hard to find a friendly stock.

Back to the story.

Yeah.

She didn't know she was going to die.

She knew she was real sick.

She comes home with the stints.

How did you encourage her?

Because she's an example of someone that actually listened.

How did you tell her and what was her mindset to where she listened to do this instead of just eating like she normally would?

Because some people do and then they die.

Yeah.

Well, it was because she was a very active person.

She was a painter.

And now she couldn't do that anymore.

In other words, the doctors told, they even told her not to climb stairs unless it was necessary.

But she didn't know that she only has six months to live because her son and my wife didn't want to tell her that.

But we didn't tell her.

But what makes her want to actually try your diet?

Because she knows we're very close friends.

And I was already on that diet and the lifestyle for two years.

And she was two years.

Yeah, she was two years.

She saw you as an example.

Exactly.

Well, that's the best way.

So here I am on your program and I hope I'm going to be an example.

The example is the best way, I think, show people.

That's the best proof.

Yes.

That's the best.

Absolutely.

That's something in her brain, her intuition.

It wasn't logical.

Like she didn't read it.

She just intuitively, somehow her body's like, well, can't hurt.

Look at Michael.

Lead the example.

Yeah.

Or even the ones, some of the authors that write these books.

One of my advice when I, it's in my book too, is take a look at the physical, how this person looks.

And it ends up like, are they overweight?

Sometimes you go to a heart specialist and the heart specialist is obese.

It's like, well, you know that that's not an example.

You know, so, yeah, so.

Well, there are genes.

I mean, there are the people that really have a hard time.

They're not built to be thin.

And I think that sometimes things get taken out of context.

Like, you know what?

I do exercise.

I do try to eat rights.

Just look at the size of my bones, man.

Yeah, you're bigger than me.

Well, as long as you're not using that as a rationalization.

Because you see so many people on TV and it's like, it's okay.

Well, everybody looks overweight, everybody looks obese, even on the commercials or on the different programs.

It's like, well, I guess it's okay.

But you got to pay attention to your own body.

That's so, so important.

Because even, and for your own health, it's like, okay, that person, but what about me?

How am I doing?

So what is a typical, if we stick with, take your friend, who didn't know she only had six months to live and she healed herself.

What did she eat?

What do you eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner?

Okay.

For breakfast, most of the time I'll have oats.

Because you can cook on this diet, you are allowed to boil water.

Oh, sure.

I wanted to mention something quickly because I was on a raw food plant-based, the raw food plant-based in the 1960s when the word vegan didn't even.

And I did that for a year and a half and I lost so much weight.

I went down to 100, like you were saying.

I did too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I went down to 122 pounds.

It was like, and I found it boring.

But then I went back to meat.

And then, you know, and the whole thing.

But anyway, so getting back to what.

So anyway, oats.

I'll have oats in the morning with fruit.

You know, I'll eat different kinds of fruit, especially in Mexico.

So then you can add honey.

Is honey an animal?

Is a bee is an animal?

Yeah, I'm not that strict on the honey.

I don't, yeah, strict vegans, like won't eat, you know, touch honey.

So, but I don't eat honey.

I usually eat date sugar.

That's like, to me, the healthiest.

Dates are delicious.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I eat date in powdered form.

It still maintains all its nutrients.

Other forms of sugar are basically sugar.

And figs.

Figs are another sugar.

Figs are also another.

I love figs.

Yeah.

So what I do is I'll, you know, everything, almost all sweetening is done by the date sugar, which I would say.

Which if you are typo and you believe the typo stuff, which I'm not saying is true or not, it's just an interesting idea.

Yeah.

Theoretically, dates and figs are great for typos.

I feel good when I eat them.

Okay.

Okay.

So I'll have that, the cooked with raisins and papaya, whatever the fruit is in Mexico is really good.

So I'll have that and then I'll have a, I'll even have a coffee.

I usually have, what do you call it?

Decaffeinated coffee.

And I'll have, my wife makes this incredible sourdough bread.

No, no, stopping you at the decaffeinated coffee.

Isn't that some kind of chemicals or do you use a?

Organic.

I only touch organic.

So it's done with a water process.

Okay, there we go.

That's what I'm looking for, Michael.

Yeah, you know about the answer.

Well, 80 percent of what I eat is organic, as much as I can get.

Well, you can have organic coffee, but if technically it's a company that decaffeinates, it's a chemical process that decaffeinates it.

Express this water process, which is a six-stage process, which they do here in Mexico.

It doesn't use chemicals.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

It's not completely, you still get like 3 percent or 4 percent caffeine.

So it doesn't remove it completely, but it's just so I just stay away from caffeine, you know?

Yeah.

And then what's next during the day time?

Like a snack or lunch?

A snack?

Well, it's not like, our heavy meal in Mexico is between 2 and 3 in the afternoon.

And that's my wife usually does it because of incredible cooking.

She'll do the main dish, which will be anything from beans or any kind of the legumes, all of beans or chickpeas or lentils or-

Yeah.

I wonder if that's something to do with the blue zones and the not blue zones, like here in mainstream North America.

Because I always feel better, but I work for myself.

So I do my big meal actually around 3 o'clock.

Because why?

Because big breakfast is too much, not hungry yet.

And if I wait, I'm like, I'm hungry.

But we're on this clock, right?

Everyone works 9 to 5.

So it could be 7 PM before most people have their big meal because they rushed out of the house.

I wonder if that's a factor of the time of day.

You also when you eat, who was it?

Dr.

Greger was saying, eat breakfast like a king, eat lunch like a prince, and eat dinner like a pauper.

Because when you're going to sleep and you don't get to go.

So usually the best meal for losing weight is, a heavy meal is the breakfast.

And the worst meal for losing weight is the late, if you eat late at night, because you're going to sleep and the digestive process is not working that well because other things are working when you sleep, you know, to keep you healthy or move, you know, your problem, you know, different problems you have.

Yeah.

I always thought about it kind of a little different than that.

If I ate before I went to bed, I couldn't really get as good sleep because my digestive system couldn't just relax.

Because it is like you say, those other systems need to rejuvenate, and they can't as well because we got to give some energy to the digest.

Yeah, you're focusing on digestion, right?

So it's not the best.

Sometimes though I get really hungry, it's difficult, it's hard sometimes.

Yeah, it is hard.

I love to eat.

So anyway, so my wife makes the main meal, and I always make the salad.

So there's always the salad there.

I also make our breakfast most of the time.

So we'll have a main dish, and then we'll have a salad with it.

And the main dish could be, like I was mentioning about the legumes with a lot of, you know, maybe a side dish of broccoli cooked, you know, steamed, or mashed potatoes, or we eat everything except meat.

So and the one thing I liked about the raw diet and the vegan, I could eat as much as I want.

That's true.

As much, like, it's amazing if you cut out the meat and the cookies and the donuts, how much you can eat and still be hungry and still be allowed to eat and to get you started on the program, you know.

And get you and keep your weight off.

Yeah.

Because you can eat, it's all, it's nutrition dense, all these fruits and vegetables.

It's like you can eat much more of that than you can eat of what has more calorie dense foods.

Yeah.

So yeah, so it's true.

When I was on the raw fruit and vegetable, I lost so much, but I was living, I was in Canada, then when I moved to New York, I was freezing.

I didn't have any meat on my body.

With me, it was Oregon in the winter and I would really have loved a cup of hot tea, even tea, not coffee, or either one, decaf, something hot.

It was the raw version, which taught me how, they're like, trust us, Dan, we got, you're going to like this.

These raw people were raw chefs.

The stuff they made, the cakes and the cookies with the figs and the dates, it was pretty delicious.

It was, it was good food.

But nonetheless, I couldn't, yeah, I couldn't, I was starting to get too thin.

And it was just something interesting to try.

And then I went back to more balanced, healthy lives, you know, balanced diet.

So is there anything else in them that we haven't covered in the lifestyle or in your book, or even in the misinformation that you want to talk about?

Well, I think that I'd like to mention about my second book, just what happened in the first book, you know, with I was uncovering the misinformation and manipulation of information by, you know, corporations, whether it's, you know, the dairy groups or drug companies or the, the, what do you call it, the processed food companies.

They just, you know, they're behind the scenes.

And so when I got into the second book is when, you know, during the pandemic, and I just got into the investigation into the whole, you know, health, the part of the book is on the health, you know, and I got more into that on health, but I also got into other, you know, I got into the vaccines, I got into climate change, I got now, you know, into the war, what's happening on a global scale.

Oh, I see, misinformation in general.

Misinformation and manipulation of information to make by, from governments and corporations, just to make sure you don't think out of the box.

You just follow, you know, what you're being told.

And that's a crime because just like what happened with the drugs and everything, we got to do the research.

We got to find out what's going on.

What's going on in the world right now is chaotic.

So you have a great understanding of this.

What solution can we give to listeners to solve this problem?

I'm going to paint you a picture of the problem.

Yeah.

Well, use the pandemic.

You know, you watch it every night.

It sounds real scary.

So you have to watch it pretty much.

It's pretty serious.

Putting people on television to pitch the vaccine or to pitch this or that.

And you kind of know you're not getting the whole story, but worse at the same time, the scientist who, for example, will tell you a pandemic is the worst time to start a vaccine because you're going to lose the herd instinct, predeposed natural immunity to it if you force injection and this vaccine at that time.

You want to do it before, not during is the worst time.

I know some of those scientists and they could not say that else they'd lose their job or certainly not get on TV.

Let's pretend 90% of people watching TV know that.

What's the solution at some point to either turn off the TV, which we don't, or to force a change to where someone is allowed to have that voice, to where the TV people, the people doing the manipulation will go, you know, we have to start telling the truth.

Or maybe they can't because if they do, then you're not going to get what they want.

They're going to fight it to the death.

What's the solution to this picture I just painted?

Well, I think, you know, supposedly there's a good chance that there's going to be, eventually another pandemic is going to be announced.

And right now, they're coming out with the new vaccines.

And I think that, like, for example, my niece, she was a yoga teacher.

She was traveling around outside of the US.

She was here in Mexico and other places.

And she didn't want to take the vaccine because she just didn't believe in it.

But they made her do it because she couldn't fly.

So she had to fly in order to be able to go where she had to go.

And she got, what do you call it, tinnitus in her ear.

You know, she gets this ringing in her ear.

And three of the four doctors that she had seen said it was probably from the vaccine.

And she didn't want to, and she just to let go of that idea that it was caused by that, it causes so much depression.

So I think there's so much information now, and people have to just, you know, if it comes around again, do you want to do, do you believe in getting another vaccine?

Did it help you?

What about the other information that say, you know, we were told that the vaccine was going to, you know, was going to prevent us from getting the COVID.

And then we, then you won't be able to transmit it either.

And that changed because people who got the vaccine also were, you know, got sick, as much as people who didn't get the vaccine, and they spread it just like the other people.

So if people can open up that, because, you know, there's another word, a couple of words called confirmation bias, where it's like, you don't want to listen to anything else that disagrees with what you believe.

So we have to get out of that.

We have to understand that there's so much information out there.

There's so much news out there that doesn't go along with the agendas that we're being told on the mainstream news.

Yeah, like one of my biggest ones to start with is question everything.

I get into fights with some of my best friends because they're like, I can't be friends with you.

Why?

Because we don't agree on anything.

I'm like, we can, but we're friends, right?

Like, I don't like vanilla.

You don't, you like chocolate, I like vanilla.

Is that a problem?

Like question everything.

And then go with your gut impression, your feeling, and your feeling doesn't match.

Question that.

Don't question your feeling.

Like my feeling is not valid.

I question this and I'd feel something's missing something.

Something's not here.

Trust that.

Don't start to believe, oh, I must be wrong about how I feel.

I question this because look, I see it on 10 times on TV that this is true.

This is how it is.

And my best friends say, what's wrong with you, Dan?

You're not thinking straight.

No, I am.

Question it.

Because you don't know the answer is the problem, right, Michael?

They're hiding the truth from you, which is hard to prove because it's hidden and manipulated.

I'd say question everything and trust yourself.

That is so key what you just said.

Question everything and when I start off my book, my second book, Information Warfare, I say, the second page is, is this book for you?

And I wrote down about 10 different things, but each one was like, did you question any of these?

I mean, it's like just one thing that you, if you question one thing, it could open up a door to your mind and you'll say, well, if this wasn't true, you know, maybe.

And then I have these people too that go, Daniel, what's the matter with you?

We can't even go in the grocery store and you get all these questions and you're kind of a pain in the butt.

Like, can we just?

So you got to know when to step it down a notch.

In fact, most of the time you keep this stuff to yourself, unless it's personally going to affect you.

Like you've told me, I have to get the vaccine, I'm holding my ground.

But if it's just like, what are we having for dinner?

Well, okay, you get that.

And you know what, I'm going to go over to the fruits and vegetables section without having a discussion or an argument, right?

You don't try to convince other people how they should live either.

You just make sure no one makes you live the way you don't want to.

And I even when if I meet somebody, I don't even bring up the subject.

There you go.

You know, if they're reading something different, you know, that's okay.

You know, it's now on the flip side.

If you do people, if listeners, if if you have a kind way of like Michael just say, I don't bring it up.

But let's say I see Michael, by the way, how come you're not eating meat?

It's perfectly fine to open if you can be respectful of people's opinions to be inquisitive.

That's actually helpful.

Right?

I would love to tell you why I don't want to eat what you want to eat.

There's no one to stop, right?

Is sometimes enough is enough and you got to be, you got to spoon feed people bits of information and not try to win them over or never try to win them over, never try to convince them this is my way is the best way.

You got to learn for yourself, discover things for yourself.

Right.

Well, one thing I want to mention is that one important reason I'm not going to say don't eat meat.

I'm just going to say eat more plant-based foods.

Because one of the important things that is missing from the standard American diet that people have been, was one of the great questions for vegans, where do you get your proteins from?

So that's always been the case because we were brought up on that.

I still get that.

But very important question is, where do you get your fiber from?

Because fiber is the favorite food of your microbiome, your gut.

That's what the microbes, the bacteria in your gut love.

That's what they live on and they produce these short-chain fatty acids would give you a healthy immune system.

But we get like maybe 30 percent, the average American on the standard American diet, 30 percent of the fiber we need.

Yeah, that is something when I'm eating a hamburger, I kind of like to, especially if like, what's the bun count?

I'm like, where are my veggies?

Does fries count, French fries or whatever I mean?

Where's my salad, right?

Is that where you're talking about the fibers, like salad?

Salad, beans, grains, that's where all the fiber is.

Like rice, is rice fiber?

Ground rice is, yeah, all of it.

All of the, everything that is plant-based basically in one level or another has a certain amount of fiber, but grains and beans and cereals, what do you call it?

What do you call it?

Cheerios?

Cheerios, right.

Whole grain foods, whole grain cereals.

Whole grains.

Get the fiber, as much fiber as you can.

And it's going to help you.

Because there are those other cereals that I'd love to eat, but they don't do so well with me.

Lucky Charms, for example, half of it's sugar.

I pick out the marshmallows.

You're right.

No, I make my own granola.

Yeah, I make my own granola with the oats.

But fiber is very important.

So, if you want to eat some meat.

I'm talking about eggs.

Because my same friend who I told you about, who does the most delicious dinner with veggies, no oil, he cooks with no oil.

He once put it to me this way, he's like, about eggs, how bad they are.

He's like, who would eat something that's made to grow into basically chicken and egg, and has all the nutrients, I mean, it actually sounds good this way, all the nutrients, to get it from that to a, but he's like, all this, the way he put it was like all this fat and other gross stuff to make a chicken live, to be a chick to grow an egg to grow into chicken.

And you're going to have two of those for breakfast, two eggs every day.

Something didn't make sense to me, like why am I eating like he was right?

What do you think about eggs?

Well, I think to me, the most important thing is the cholesterol.

You know, there's some people, there's a whole argument now about the cholesterol or not cholesterol.

I'm into, you know, cholesterol, we, our body needs cholesterol, but it's what you eat.

So one egg, I think, has pretty much the cholesterol of your body.

That's all you should be eating, one egg, you know, and takes care of all or that's the maximum because of the amount of cholesterol that a body should be eating and an egg has the most.

So, you know, it's that plus it's all the also the hormones that, you know, from.

Oh, are we allowed to eat eggs?

I mean, allowed, but is it part of the diet that we're speaking of?

Not my diet.

It's not, no, it's not mine.

No, it's not a plant-based diet.

Keyword is plant, so no eggs.

Right.

Yeah.

And you don't need, you don't need, you don't need.

The basic line is you can eat meat.

You don't need to eat anything animal and you can be very, very healthy.

So, you know, that's, that's the bottom line.

And if you want to eat some, you know, but I have my basic, you know, advice is include more plant-based, whole plant-based foods in your diet.

What comes to mind is if I'm not, I'm not one to support the mission to Mars, by the way, I think we have enough problems on planet Earth.

And I'm an aerospace engineer and that's one of the reasons I dropped out.

I'm kind of like, why are we spending stupid amounts of money to go to another planet when we can't fix our own?

We're just going to.

If we did go to Mars, yeah, if you will, someday, I'm going to imagine people are going to be forced to just go plant-based.

Or eat pills because they're not going to be raising cattle off the gate, go animals.

Animals take up a lot of resources.

You'd be forced to do plant-based if you go to something like that, right?

Well, when I think of when somebody says going to Mars, my first thought is that we're going to screw up Mars like we did the Earth.

Oh, trust me, Michael, it's depressing.

Just when I thought I was reading an interesting book on the solutions, how we're going to do it, they are, they're already talking about, okay, where can we mine?

What can we do to extract water?

Not considering the waste products, the byproducts of this manufacturing, the mining, what you're going to do to get water, what's going to happen.

The first goal is let's colonize, let's stake the territory, let's do what we need to survive to just get started without any, like it's pure.

How come we're not treating it like the Antarctica, where you're not even allowed to get off the boat unless you put on the booties to keep, so nothing on your shoes gets on the ice.

When you go to the Antarctica, that's what they make you do, keep it clean.

No, just anything to, but I don't think they're going to have cows and meat unless they bring it frozen.

Well, I don't know.

I definitely won't be around, so I don't know if you're going to be around either.

You sure?

You sure you won't be around?

How do you know?

Well, you never know, right?

You're playing pickleball, you never know.

Well, what is your life expectancy?

Do you have a number in your head that's too big?

Well, at first, I thought if they're blue zones, they're living healthy to the 100 and beyond.

But to me, the most important thing is it doesn't matter, because I don't think in chronological age, really.

I just want to be healthy.

Because I just don't want to have a disease.

I want to avoid that.

I want to be healthy, so I can continue writing.

I continue living a thriving life.

And that's what we really want, is living.

We don't want to live to 90, and there we are in a home, and you can't even move around.

We want to be healthy, and that is the potential.

And that's what we should be aiming for.

It's the quality of life.

Yeah.

The quality of life.

Michael's website is michaeljdorfman.com.

It will be in the show notes, michaeljdorfman.com.

His books are The Thriving Vegan and Information Wars, The Battle for Truth and Freedom.

It's Information Warfare.

The Battle for Truth and Freedom.

Can I show just the front page of it?

Let me just get it.

It will be in the show notes.

And anything else we missed, Michael, you want to add while you're looking for your book?

Looking to get my shoe out of this table here.

It's right here.

This is...

Information Warfare.

There's a picture of Benjamin Franklin.

Franklin behind a dollar bill, that's behind the whole...

With the money, the money is the information part of the...

And the other book, which is The Thriving Vegan, is this one.

Which has a picture of somebody holding a bunch of apples in front of their...

Tomatoes, I think it's tomatoes.

Tomatoes, okay.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, my main...

You could buy...

The book is on Amazon.

And my sub stack.

So, I just wanted to mention that I publish weekly an article.

I cover all the topics.

What you're eating for breakfast and dinner?

Well, it all depends.

One week I write on maybe the climate change, and another week I'll talk about food and just anything on nutrition.

And then I'll talk about the war that's going on.

And just...

There's so much going on.

You mentioned climate change twice.

Yeah.

In terms of misinformation, disinformation, tell me what you believe when you say climate change, what you mean by climate change.

Well, climate is changing.

Well, it's always changing.

It's always changing.

Yeah.

It's cold this morning and I'm going to take this jacket off when we get done here.

Okay.

Yeah.

Climate is changing.

The climate is changing for the last billions of years.

And right now we're on a 300-year warming period.

And the last, before the warming period was a mini ice age, between 1600s during the dark ages.

And that switched an hour, but had nothing to do with man.

So there you go.

That's what I was, that's, that's really what I wanted you to do is when people say climate change, most people mean climate change from carbon dioxide.

And let's be clear on it, you're meaning the climate change.

To me, I observed in the news actually kind of a slick trick they did.

They used to really emphasize CO2.

Now they use the word quote climate change.

Because they're backing down, they realize there's some pushback like, hey, a lot of us realize, you know, the weather is always changing.

What do you mean by that?

So it's like reverse disinformation.

They're coming down to so we can't argue as much as that's not like, I don't believe it's from man, only from man.

I believe some of us from sun.

So you're basically you're saying that it's a natural cycle.

Well, not only it's a natural cycle, it's we're in a warming period now, which is really great.

So when people, you know, it started out with Al Gore and the whole thing with, what was it, global warming?

Yeah.

And then you found out there were there were places that were freezing, that they changed this from global warming to climate change.

But that's what I mean.

Exactly.

They twist the.

For and according to whatever their agenda is, you know, it's just like people got smart.

People were going to get on the jig like, oh, that's not making sense.

There's smart people out there.

I hope so.

Right.

And they were going to start, hey, that's, you know what this doesn't, they were doing what I was saying, question and think for yourself.

And they, I think the Al Gore types realized, we better change the wording before people call us on our, yeah.

What they're doing is they're making it a crisis and that's what we should be afraid of.

So what would we get into fear because, oh, it's a crisis, but there's no crisis.

Well, it's also, okay, so backing up to, how do we teach people how to think for themselves?

To me, I've actually, I've had the police called on me for using the neighbor's recycling bins when mine were full.

That's how ecologically friendly I am.

And like you, Michael, I've been around long enough to realize, when did people start caring about global warming?

No one used to care.

So red flag for me was, why all of a sudden is it always on the front page when we had just as much pollution or more in the past, and no one ever cared, it was never on...

Where were all these brilliant scientists and all this data then?

And now you see it all the time.

That's what makes me think, okay, who has the benefit?

And one thing comes to mind real quick is nuclear power.

Right.

Because it's the only solution to solving the problem, if people believe it's man-made, it's nuclear power, which is not something good for fruits and vegetables.

Right.

Yeah.

So what were you saying, Four Eyes?

Oh, what I was saying was that another, you know, the whole thing was CO2, they're making the big thing about CO2.

And I just come back to one simple fact was that plants thrive on CO2.

I know, right?

And it's amazing.

Humans thrive on oxygen and plants give us oxygen.

We love each other.

The trees.

So that's a fascinating phenomenon.

Thanks for bringing that up, because the simple thing, the people who are just going to believe what's on TV and what they're told, they're just going to tell both of us, me and you, Michael, right now, that we're disbelievers, like flat out disbelievers, we're not intelligent, we're not like, just the fact we're talking about this.

If you really thought about it, what you just said, plants need the CO2, humans take oxygen, it's fascinating.

I actually have the tools, the meters, it's fascinating how it's always the same level of oxygen at a certain, and CO2 at an altitude, wherever you are.

Like, you know, how does the planet maintain homostaseous, whatever the word is?

Like it's always the same, like you cut down some trees, it's not good, it had to hurt the CO2.

Mother Nature somehow balances it out.

Yeah, somehow Mother Nature knows best.

It somehow balances it out.

And I'm not saying it's good to...

Here's the ironic thing with the CO2, people are always focused on the CO2.

I'm like, do you know what kind of soots coming out, the diesel of your school bus causing your kids asthma?

And all you've ever cared about is CO2.

Why don't you attack the real problem, the asthma from the diesel fuel making hydrocarbons and particles?

No, we're focusing on CO2.

And so...

Yeah.

And another thing is, to me, I call it the elephant in the room.

We're focusing on CO2 and the problems of what we're doing to the ocean, what we're doing to the rivers, how we're polluting, like you're mentioning.

We're polluting the...

But back to...

You get it, I get it.

How do we get people to think for themselves and go, I don't...

Well, one thing, like I mentioned, is once you start seeing some all the time on the news you didn't see before, start to question it.

Don't trust it.

What's behind it?

What are some of your other tips for, oh, that's not quite making sense before I believe it, because they've told me it 10 times, it must be true.

How do people figure it out for themselves?

I think if you know, if you're, let's say, awake to certain thing that's going on, there's another possible truth, speak to people and speak to each other, get together, and I do that all the time.

If I get a chance to talk about climate change or talk about the thing what's happening with health.

Oh, you know, so that's a great one, talking to people, and if you do, please people still be human, be respectable.

I once, when I was at a restaurant by myself, and I noticed there was an older woman by herself seated at the bar to eat dinner.

I sat down next to her just to be friendly and kind.

She was by herself, and we had a great conversation until somehow global warming came up and I told her, I don't believe it's man-made.

And she screamed at the bartender, this man has offended me.

And I'm like a deer in the headlights now because I'm thinking, like the bartender is going to think.

I saw, I yelled to the bartender, I told her, I don't believe cars cause global warming.

And he knew this woman.

So fortunately, he didn't skip a beat, he didn't even turn a muscle deafening, he was still pouring drinks through the people at the bar they were drinking.

Like, in other words, I didn't have to worry that he was going to kick me out of the bar because he thought it was a threat to this woman.

But this, what's the matter with people?

I mean, I'm trying to be kind, having our conversation and she couldn't just respectively engage in something because we had dissimilar beliefs.

But that's the way it is, you just can't talk to those people.

Yeah.

But we need to because nothing's going to change unless people respect people's opinions and have open conversations and question things.

I mean, for starters, take the official story and yeah, and another time I was at Los Alamos, our nation's nuclear weapons laboratory on work.

And I was in the line at Starbucks just outside the lab.

And I was asking, so what do you do?

And someone had just got a couple of hundred thousand dollars or a million, a lot of money to study global warming.

And I said, it was a rude comment on my part.

I was like, it seems like there's better, like, because it was framed like it's true.

And this is, we're going to do this study.

And I'm like, well, if you're already saying it's true, why are you taking the money just to show it's true more?

Why don't we do something?

And we could do something with this money.

Instead, we're spending it on more research to show man's caught.

It didn't make sense, seemed like a waste of money.

I might have framed it wrong.

But that's what happens, that it's the groups that support the narrative of climate change that get the money to do the study.

It was cognitive dissonance for sure.

It was her job that she wouldn't have unless she got the grant.

I settled down for a moment.

I kind of apologized.

I didn't realize she would be so sensitive, and maybe the way I said it was a little too dramatic and like, that's a waste of money.

I didn't say it that way, but I could have said it differently.

I apologized basically, and I said, look, I didn't mean to communicate it that way.

Tell me about your work.

I didn't admit that I didn't believe what she was working on was good, but I tried to make up for, be friendly.

After a little bit of telling me what she did for her job, not even much, all of a sudden she was like, so tell me why?

Why don't you believe my work is valid?

I made her think.

And that's the like pebble in the pond, I think you do to the ripple, change the way, because then she's got to think, why is Daniel, he made her think.

Honestly think, like what am I missing here?

What am I missing?

If intuitively you've got suggest, what am I missing?

Just follow that, trust yourself.

Yeah, it's interesting you're saying that because, what is it, the Socrates, the way he used to get into a dialogue, he would always ask a question, like somebody said, oh, I didn't know, I think that climate change is this, then ask a question, well, why do you think that?

It's like questioning, and then they have to answer it, because maybe they didn't even think of why they think that just because they're listening to what they're being told, and all of a sudden, well, I don't know, maybe they don't have a reason, or if they do have a reason.

Well, with the climate change, one that I got was, well, it's in every newspaper and you can see it and just call the reporter, and I do, and the reporter's like, well, I got that from him, and I call him.

I'm like, what I was looking for, Michael, is the raw data, the temperature day by day.

Like if you're going to say it goes up, can you show me the temperature day by day for the last 20 years?

And he was like, oh yeah, sure.

I can't.

I'm like, no, nobody I've called yet that you've told me can.

Where did you get that?

Oh, you know, everybody knows it's getting warmer by the end of the month.

I want to see your data and I just want to see it.

Is that a problem?

It's a problem for some people because you're challenging them.

I have a great book here.

It's not mine.

Can I just show the...

Oh, sure.

For those not watching, it's listening for people on Spotify and Apple.

Hold it up a little bit higher.

A very convenient warming.

What's the subtitle?

I can't see the subtitle.

How modest warming and more CO2 are benefiting humanity.

All right.

Oh, you know, that brings to mind that just when I thought I was the only one...

And by the way, I used to believe in global warming so much, I wrote my congressman a physical handwritten letter.

I did too.

I did too.

And I got a response, a physical letter.

This is how much I believed what they were pitching.

And then one day, I kind of looked, I just questioned enough to realize we were being...

Oh, I went on Amazon.

I thought I was a genius, but there's more to the story.

And lo and behold, on Amazon, there's all kinds of scientists who will tell you the other side of the story, and they cannot get grants and money for research or be on TV because they don't tell you the story that those on TV are telling you.

They don't want to hear, they don't want you to hear the other side of the coin.

Now, even if you want to say, let's pretend global warming is from cars, and we don't want all these other people that say it's not to be on TV because we need to fix the planet immediately, and we don't want your mind to be distracted by those people who say it's not, we won't be able to save the planet.

Now, that's a legitimate kind of conspiracy in a way like, we got to do what we got to do.

We can't have an alternative point of view because it'll slow down progress.

That's what a lot of people who believe in global warming, that's their stance.

That's kind of a Nazi-ish, a Nazi, what would you call it, Michael?

Dangerous way for society to live.

We're just going to squash the other point of view.

Even if they're wrong, we're going to squash it.

Well, let me give you an example.

Well, the other point of view is that Mexico.

Mexico is, we can't do the green movement.

It's impossible.

We have too many, we can't afford it for all the people.

And that's the way it is for most of the world.

People in Africa, in India, it's like the whole thing of the green movement.

You should write a book on greenwashing.

Yeah, the word green, what does the word green mean?

Well, the movie, it's to go towards the sun, everything coming from the sun or the wind.

But it can't be done in, it costs a fortune to really be done.

It's also solar panels are toxic.

Yeah, they're toxic and they use, and so let's, you know.

And again, I will get beat up for saying that.

And yet, when I was a chemical engineer at Motorola, that was my process, boron trichloride, which is used to make the solar cells today.

Ironically, we're using to make semiconductors.

It's the solar panel uses the same chemical process.

It's horribly bad for the air and the water and cannot be recycled.

People in this mindset that it's free renewable energy.

I'm like, what is the term renewable mean?

I mean, it just goes in the ground.

It's never getting recycled.

It's toxic there to make.

And like you said, Michael, everyone can't have solar panels anyhow.

It's not going to stay as...

They need fossil fuels.

It's something that's the way it is.

I get beat up for saying that though, because people think I'm don't care about the environment somehow just because I don't agree that solar is the answer.

Yeah.

Well, that's it.

You know, that's what people need to...

So, they're not really into the green movement.

What else is going on there in Mexico that's different from America?

Mexico was always dependent on the US throughout its history.

And we were like the, I don't know, the vassal or...

We just did whatever the US wanted us to do.

And then we got this new president, AMLO, who's just been replaced by Claudia, Shane Baum.

But AMLO, no, Mexico, we want to be self-sufficient.

We're going to grow and we're not going to be, we don't want to be dependent anymore.

And they've done, you know, they've...

We used to send the oil up to the states.

They would refine it and send it back to us, and they would use it for gasoline.

Now we have our own refining.

We're not allowing GMO into Mexico.

We're looking at it that the...

We're very careful.

We might go back to war with you.

Yeah.

Well, that's the danger.

You know, we're scared of that.

And not only that, Mexico is now doing business with Russia and China.

You know, China has a lot of investment in Mexico.

And that's what they hate.

So this is what's going on.

But so many people are moving down here from the US.

And it's a great life.

You know, it's a less stressful life in Mexico.

And the people come here, what they say, they love the most of the people here.

And it's just...

Yeah, the community is a huge part of my intention with what I do on my podcast to teach people, you know, part of their depression, or in your case, how to live longer, be healthier.

It's the community.

We up, you know, in an average American city, you have your best friends, your biking partners, your running partners, maybe you work, but there's not really a sounds like there's more of a sense of, of a country really, a unitedness down there, the way you describe it.

Yeah, I think so.

It's just something, it's a culture, you know, we have, and you don't want to change that.

You don't want that to Mexico.

Mexico used to be one of the healthiest countries in the world.

And now we're, it's just like the US because we, you know, we're getting in, we have McDonald's, we have Burger King, we got all the, you know, the processed food, exactly the same.

And now one and two in obesity, in the United States and Mexico, now heart disease, cancer.

It's, yeah.

And that's what's, even in, you know, these places I mentioned, the Okinawa, one of the blue zones, there's McDonald's is there and it's just, you can't stop it, you know, it's just.

Well, I will admit sometimes when I'm on a trip to another country, I don't travel well because I'm like, I just want my, what I'm addicted to, my routine, a Starbucks, for example, whatever.

I don't eat at McDonald's, but I get the mindset though of, although come to think of it, if I was really desperate for food, I still don't know if I'd eat it.

I don't need, I might get the salad.

You can get a salad now at McDonald's, I think.

You can, you can.

Yeah.

All right.

This has been wonderful talking to you, Michael.

Well, thanks a lot.

It's been great.

I really.

Thanks for being persistent about the time zones.

I had another guest on who was on in Mexico, and they explained it to me somewhat for whatever reason, the time you guys choose.

It doesn't seem to make sense to me.

But I know some.

We don't have times.

Except for what he called where Cancun is, we don't have any change in time zones, and also a couple of states.

But basically, Mexico City and 80 percent of Mexico is one hour behind.

Well, we don't change time zones anymore, as of last year.

You mean you don't do the confusing thing?

There's standard time and then daylight time.

Yeah, we don't have that.

For a given, is it central or mountain?

Arizona is like that.

Arizona doesn't change.

Okay.

Which is where I'm from, to which finally on some calendar programs, there's Arizona time.

That was my solution 10 years ago.

Just call it Arizona time.

It's the only state?

Yes, it's the only state.

So people think it's mountain standard time, but then they don't change.

For my business meetings where people who live in Arizona, tell everyone we're on mountain standard, I go, you're not on mountain standard.

Hello, don't tell people that.

Then they started saying we're on Arizona time, and make it real clear in their notes when they send out meeting notes, Arizona time.

Yeah, they don't do that either.

They actually sued the federal government when the daylight savings time started.

Arizona sued the federal government to say, no, we're not going to do that.

Unfortunately, there's some newbies in Arizona as people move in that want to do the daylight savings time that are frustrating the longtime residents of Arizona who, no, we don't want to change, we don't want to change.

That's good to hear Mexico is on the same page.

It's just create your own time zone, call it Mexico time.

Yay.

All right.

Any last words, Michael?

Not really.

I think we covered a lot.

It was really great.

Yeah, it's one of those conversations.

I hope if you did listen through all this, I probably don't need to tell you this.

Those people who maybe change the channel because it's something that they disagree with.

I'm open-minded.

I'm sure Michael's open-minded, and most of all, respect what other people want to say.

Because if you have something to say, I'd love to hear it as well.

It might make me think, it always makes me think of, oh, not maybe when I'm speaking to you, I'll be like the natural defensive, but afterwards, it'll stick in my head forever, like, I wonder, you know, yeah, no, I can't be, but sometimes people I most belligerently disagree with because I'm really passionate too.

After the fact, I go, I look it up and go, oh, those people are right.

And it sets me down a new path and something I hadn't thought of before.

Well, it happens to me too.

I'm open and it's important, but taking that step to doubt or to question exactly what you said is really important.

But in the end, always be happy.

Never let it ruin your day.

Don't get too worked up about things because stress isn't good for you either.

Yeah.

That's what I find with meditation, is that always make the connection and see that all that stuff out of you, outside is not what's happening inside, that you are separate from what's going on inside.

For example, no matter how pandemic or people are killing too many cows and go into Mars and it's a waste of money.

I was like, whatever, I'm going to go out the door now and just go for a little walk, or do a little meditation and I can't change the world myself overnight.

I'm not going to get to me.

And that's what I do.

That's what I do when I'm writing.

Sometimes people ask me, well, how do you not get depressed of all the stuff and all the craziness and chaos?

And it's just that because I'm sort of looking at, I see it as a movie going on in a sense.

It's also part of the part of why people are stressed and depressed.

They've, when I say they've won, when you, if you feel bad after listening to all this, and you do, people who watch the news all day long, they do feel bad.

When I say they won, I mean that this information, misinformation for them to convince you to take their beliefs and their path and buy their food and take their drugs.

You just say no.

And I know what you're doing and no, and just don't get angry about it.

They'll stop if everybody just stops, if everybody just thinks for themselves and doesn't buy into it.

Things will change.

You don't have to be angry about it.

Yeah, that's the big one.

Not to be angry at each other.

Not to be angry because I run into people who, they're only halfway through their journey on discovering misinformation.

Yeah.

I've been there and I can see how rabid they are and angry and trying to push their new truth down your throat, right?

I'm like, I get it.

You've realized that you were being told only half the information and misinformation, you're angry and now you're trying to scream from the top of your lungs or being lied to.

Okay.

Let's just go for a walk or hike or a bike ride.

I get it.

You're right.

It's okay, but it's difficult for him.

Yeah.

Well, talk about, I mean, if you can really get into this big subject or topic of the elections and see how much hate there was, there still is.

It's dividing people completely.

Exactly.

Keyword, when you're searching for the truth, why is this happening?

Exactly, Michael, they're trying to divide us.

That's it.

That is the whole point.

They're intentionally making that on the news to polarize us with different beliefs on purpose.

It wouldn't even matter what the belief is, they're trying to say they're going to do or not do.

They're trying to divide us, which is, that's what occurred to me.

They're trying to divide us, to which I go to my family, who are you voting for?

Okay, I think I'll vote for them.

And then who are you voting for?

Oh, you know what?

I think I'll vote for them.

And I know your guy is pretty good too.

Like he was like, you can't divide, they ain't getting my family divided.

They ain't happening.

And then my family, after it did that, because it was, you know, prior to that, it had been pretty conflicted at Christmas and Thanksgiving.

You could get pretty heated.

But after it did that, my family kind of got the same mindset.

Oh, we can make fun of this.

And when they said who they were voting for, even though they knew the other family member was voting for somebody different, husband and wife, they were completely okay with it.

Like, whatever, you guys quack, you know, whatever, you guys.

But at least we're talking about it now, not getting like, so we're gonna go to civil war over it.

Like some people are, you know, so adamant about one belief and realizing, you know what, maybe I'm not getting all the information.

I might not even believe in this guy.

If I got the other side, I might believe them.

Maybe that's why I shouldn't even vote.

Oh, no, you'd be throwing out your vote, that kind of thing.

But at least we can talk about it and not get divided.

If they divide us, then they've won.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Well, thanks for letting me do a lot of talking, Michael.

I did too.

Yeah.

Have a great day.

Stay healthy and young.

Thank you.

I hope we can have you back in a year or so when you'd just be just as healthy and you can plug your next book.

If we're still around, yeah, that would be great.

Thank you.

Have a great day.

Bye.