Think Differently. Solve the Impossible.

 

Show Notes

Website: http://www.misfitinhelltoheavenexpat.com

GET the BOOK: Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat: Lessons from a Dark Near-Death Experience and How to Avoid Hell in the Afterlife 

https://www.amazon.com/Misfit-Hell-Heaven-Expat-Near-Death/dp/1952146089

The International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS)

As an educational nonprofit organization which focuses resources into providing the highest quality information available about NDE-related subjects. It is the only such membership group in the world. Anyone experiencing an NDE should know about this organization.

https://iands.org/

Connect with Kathy McDaniel:

Facebook :https://www.facebook.com/KathyMcDaniel.FoxIs

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MKMcDaniel3

YouTube: https://youtu.be/8WsiriExZOI

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kathymcdaniel.foxis

Transcript

The selling author, speaker, and coach, Kathy McDaniel.

Kathy was in real estate property management.

Then in January 2000, she had acute respiratory distress syndrome, a serious lung condition that causes fluid to build up in the lungs.

She survived, but not before she was clinically dead and experienced what is called a distressing near-death experience.

You may be familiar with the acronym NDE.

That's a near-death experience.

NDE's are usually positive, during which a person might experience floating, detachments from their body, and feelings of warmth and serenity.

Kathy's experience, on the other hand, started with a frightening hellish one, referred to as distressing, a distressing near-death experience.

During her near-death experience, she says she had a tur of parts of hell and doesn't recommend it, before her final encounter with total bliss in heaven.

Her memoir is Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat, in which she tells the story of her dysfunctional family life before her near-death experience, and the welcome life-twisting experience for that that followed.

Her book contains tips for living a more peaceful life, losing one's fear of death, and based on what she learned and discovered during her experience, a few secrets, I can't wait to hear them, of what life on the planet Earth is all about.

Welcome to my show, Kathy.

Well, thanks Daniel for having me.

I'm happy to be here.

So tell me this story leading up to death, like how you died.

Because one of the questions I have, being an engineer, I was trying to research, what technically is dead?

And I came across the term clinically dead, which means no blood circulation and breathing.

But technically your soul is never dead, right, as you're going to explain.

So tell me the story, tell me what happened.

Well, I'm just going to correct one thing.

I was not clinically dead.

I was in a coma.

And that's also a place where our souls seem to wander out of.

And as long as your soul has left the body and gone to another dimension, you're considered a near-death experience.

That's why they call it near-death instead of a dead experience.

If you were dead, you wouldn't come back.

So all of those are near-death.

So people who have a horrible accident, you know, and feel themselves going into another dimension, that's a near-death experience.

So that's that.

And we were leading up to why I had my coma.

I had been caring for a very, very good friend who had to go to Seattle to get treated for his leukemia.

He was 53 years old.

We'd been friends for a long time.

We'd even been engaged for seven years.

So we were very close.

We thought it was only going to take a couple of months, but it took about nine months.

By the end of that time, we were all toast, just exhausted.

It was 24-hour care for a long period of time and he died.

So when a really bad flu came around, I was in Southern California at a concert.

It was like COVID and I caught it because I was so rundown.

By the time I got ill, I went to the doctor and went back to the emergency place and my friend took me in.

I passed out before I even got in the building.

They couldn't find a pulse.

They got me to the hospital.

I woke up later and there's my family from all over the country and I had been out.

So they said that I had ARDS.

Then they didn't know how to treat that.

It's just recently that because of COVID, they found some ways to treat it.

But it's a syndrome, so it's not an infection or anything.

You have to wait it out, live through it.

They said they'd have to put me in a drug-induced coma, take my brain offline, and then just try everything they could think of.

They didn't really want me awake when I was doing all that.

So it came up kind of quickly.

It was on New Year's Eve, and I remember the bulb going down.

We were watching television, and my dad waving goodbye, and that was it.

So in a coma, tell me about comas because, sorry if I sound too skeptical now, and thank you for pointing out the clinically dead term.

I took the liberty of adding that to your introduction, and I did wonder.

Wondered where you got that.

Should I ask her about that, and I just kind of...

Yeah.

No, that's cool.

So only because I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

Before you jump in to tell me what hell look like, because I'm anxious to hear in the secrets of life.

For skeptics, tell me how a coma is dead in terms of, why do they call that near-death experience?

How is that defined?

If you don't really literally die, like your heart didn't stop then, right?

No.

But people can leave their bodies with meditation.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

That's a good point.

You know, with certain drugs.

Yeah, that's true.

Your body and your soul are kind of loosey-goosey together, actually.

Okay.

So, the coma, all I knew was it was something they told me I would not be able to remember anything that happened because my brain would be offline.

And here we are 25 years later.

25 years later, I remember every minute.

So, that's how I know it didn't happen in my brain.

It happens in your soul, which is floating around out there.

And about 20% of near-death experience have some sort of distressing or hellish flavor to them.

20% that's higher than...

Up to 20.

That's a lot of people.

And they don't come forward.

And it's because we're ashamed, we're embarrassed, we're confused, we feel less than.

And so we just clam up.

You get enough people who say, jeez, what did you go to hell for?

I thought you were a nice person.

And you kind of say, man, I don't think I want to talk about this anymore.

So it's also they, it's hard enough that somebody would believe you.

And then to add to that, you're saying some negative stuff.

What's really like, why are you telling me this?

You're scaring them now.

Now they think, well, jeez, that if that can happen to her, what's going to happen to me?

And they don't want to think about it.

Oh, I hadn't thought of that.

Don't think I want to think about it.

Exactly.

Well, I didn't either.

But eventually, I mean, it took me 10 years of not being able to talk to anybody about it.

You didn't come out for 10 years?

I didn't realize that because your book is a best seller on Amazon, right?

Yeah.

But I only wrote it four years ago.

Four years ago from today?

Pretty much.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

You carried that around a long time.

A long time trying to figure out what the hell happened.

I mean, I had been a good Catholic girl that all dotted I's, crossed T's, all Catholic schools, mass every Sunday, sometimes during the week, sometimes daily, rosaries, novenas.

I did it all.

Kind of ironic.

What was I doing there?

Like I say, and finally, when the synch...

It was time, I guess.

The universe says, okay, it's time, Kath.

You've bubbled in this long enough.

All of a sudden, the synchronicity started happening.

I talked to one person who said, oh, their wife was going to have this medium coming, this medium that talks to spirits.

And I thought, hmm, maybe that's a clue.

So I went to that.

That was a bust.

And then-

Oh, really?

Okay.

Yeah.

It was fine.

It was like 50 people in the room and she's, there's lots of spirits and this guy says this, this guy says that.

I was like, yeah.

And you're like, no, this is people, this is not real.

I had the real thing.

I'll tell you.

But we're having a good time.

It's a good party, right?

Yeah.

Right.

So that, but that led to another person, that led to another person that says you need to go to Iands.

So that was an opportunity because that's, that was a place, a venue, whatever you call it, where you, it could come out and you didn't sound crazy or like out of the blue.

Well, I got up to Seattle and, you know, a room full of people and, and the speaker was somebody, you know, had been to the good place, you know, with the puppies and the angels and the rainbows and stuff.

And I thought, eh, not what happened to me.

And so I thought, I'll go back one more time.

And I did.

And there was this guy named Eben Alexander.

He was a speaker.

I don't know if you've heard of him, but he's very famous.

He was a neuroscientist or a neurosurgeon or something like that.

And he had a brain bleed and, and he went on the other side and it was a, it was a good experience.

But still I was, I was questioning, you know, why, why didn't I get that?

But finally they coerced me into telling my story.

And I knew I was going to be embarrassed and I would stumble, but I'm a storyteller.

So I get up there and man, you could hear a pin drop in that room.

And I was going through the hell thing.

Stuff you can't make up.

You really can't make it up.

No.

unless you've been there.

So at the end, they, everybody clapped when we got out.

They were very pleased.

And then I, they started sending me people that would come to the meeting.

So there's this guy over here who had a bad experience.

Kathy will talk to him.

You know, go get Kathy.

And then rub them off on Kathy.

Yeah, right.

She's been to hell.

You know, send Kathy.

I kept at that for 10 years more and met a lot of people at the conferences.

Our last one was in Salt Lake City last year.

And so tell me that, tell me what, I'm sorry I tanged you did it and I'm clear now on how you died.

Start with your story where you're back in the coma.

Back in the coma?

Okay, so they told me you've got about a, I think it was 38% chance of living.

So we've got to try this.

Relax, take a deep breath.

Everybody's wave could buy and it went black.

Then it was like nothing.

It's like a deep sleep, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing and then I awoke.

I thought, wait a minute, I wasn't supposed to wake up.

Where am I?

It's totally dark.

It's a place called The Void.

A lot of people go there first, some of them don't get out.

But it's not like a scary place, but it's just damn dark and there's no sound, and you don't know if you're standing or sitting, and you're afraid to move.

I thought, somebody put me in a closet?

I just thought, well, I can't move.

I got to wait and see.

Then eventually, this reddish glow started to happen and come in.

Then I thought, wait a minute, there was swirling fog, like a fog machine.

I thought, what the heck?

Then it started getting warm, too warm, smell bad.

What is that?

Stink.

Then I hear people shrieking, moaning, and I thought, oh no.

Then this horrible voice came out of the fog that said, do you know where you are?

I thought, the only thing I could come up with was hell.

This thing then just boomed, this horrible laugh, maniacal laugh.

I scared the you-know-what out of me, and I turned and ran into the darkness, and that's how it started.

It became a series of segments where I would be in the dark again, again, terrified, not knowing if something's sneaking up on me or what, and then this bright light would show up, and I'd be in like a movie set of some sort.

But it wasn't a movie, it was real.

The first was this horrible bombed out city with buildings, and windows were blown out.

It looked like New York or something, and rebar, and big chunks of concrete everywhere, and people screaming, and fires, and total chaos just out of nowhere.

And I didn't know I was dead or whatever you want to call that.

Well, you didn't realize you were dead yet?

Never.

Never when I was down there, not till the very end, because you're you.

Your body is like a car.

Your spirit is you.

So you get in this spirit, you drive around, and then at the end, you get out of the car.

Oh, I see.

So because you didn't know you were dead, you thought you woke up in a closet in the hospital, and then you're basically confused.

Like where did everybody go?

Did the hospital just blow up?

Why am I in the dark?

Yeah, and then all of a sudden to be thrown into total chaos, strange people walking around weird, was like this big huge metallic machine went by.

I only saw the shadow, but I could hear the scraping of the metal on it.

I thought, well, my God, maybe it's aliens.

Something has happened when I was asleep and it's not good.

So I tried to run and find some place to hide, and as I tried to scale this wall, I started to slip and I fell backwards, and I thought, oh, this is going to hurt.

But then the lights went out.

The lights came up, and this continued on with all these different segments.

You can hear and you can see in color.

It's in color.

Oh, yeah.

It's just like you and me talking.

I mean, it would be like we were in the dark and you turn on the lights and you're there and I'm here.

We say, how did I get here?

Who's this guy?

How did I get here?

What's going on?

Then you start talking and I start talking.

But unfortunately, sometimes they were demons.

They were talking and I was always surprised that they spoke perfect English.

I expected them to growl or drool or something.

But big, hairy, mean-looking, not people, things with usually a club or a stick or something to tell me that there was a job for me.

I was going to be here for a long time.

I didn't know where the hell here was, but you couldn't argue with this thing.

So they tell me to do.

One time I had to work in an abortion clinic and I was a pro-lifer, and that was anathema.

I did not want to do that, but I had to go in here and this doctor, they were doing all these abortions on these women, and they wanted me to carry what was left of the babies out across the hall into this horrible huge room, my Costco where there was piles of these dead, desiccated babies, and I came out of there, and I went to the demon and I says, no way, I'm not going to do this.

He says, oh, it just gets worse from here, and he went to hit me and I closed my eyes.

So that's when I would come into another situation.

That's why the Misfit In Hell, every time they tried to get me to do something, I would bucket and then I'd be kicked down the line to another demon or another situation.

Is that tip for someone who might experience this unintentionally?

Well, I found out now since then.

I joined Iands 20 years ago and I'm now in charge of the DNDE people.

I've got a monthly sharing group.

We've got a special conclave at the conference.

We're doing another one at the end of the month, Phoenix this time, and we're growing because all these people are coming out of the woodwork.

They would say, at last, there's a safe place for me to share my story where you won't think I'm crazy or I'm damned or I'm a terrible person.

Well, I was thinking of proactively, hopefully this does not happen to you.

It's 20 percent of people and only those that have an NDE and don't come back.

A tip for, what do you do if you find yourself doing that?

It sounds as if you say no, then it's not going to be happy yet, but at least you'll go to the next experience.

Would you like to cut to the bottom line?

To you have an experience?

Well, no to what I've learned from my own study, from my own sharing of other experiences.

We manifest those.

There is no hell.

I was taught as a Catholic from a very early age that I would go to progetory when I die.

I mean, jesus might have died for my sins, but there'll still be some left over.

I was Catholic too.

I'm totally for those not.

It's been a while for me, but purgatory to me seems like the Catholic way of explaining if there's a baby that hasn't been baptized.

It used to be that baby would go to hell.

Limbo, I believe, is for the babies.

But it just didn't seem fair.

Too many rules.

It's a baby, right?

Right, right.

So they came up with this limbo.

And what was the other term we were just, oh, purgatory.

Purgatory.

I don't know the difference anymore, but these are these in-between places.

And to me, it seemed to cop out for religious leaders who don't know the answer.

Maybe God didn't tell them.

I'm not saying, you know, some of it's not true, but it doesn't do it.

It was a way.

It's a way to keep people under their thumbs.

It's a way to keep them in line.

It's a way to threaten people that they have to believe what they're doing or else they will go to hell.

If they eat meat on Friday, they go to hell.

Oh, wait a minute.

We changed that rule.

They don't go to hell anymore.

And I said, well, what happened to the people that did go to hell?

Well, they did that because they knew it was bad and they did it anyway.

And it's like, well, this isn't making sense.

Bottom line is, I have met a lot of people now who have had these experiences and Daniel, 85 percent of them are Catholic.

Hmm, interesting.

I'm going to float on that one.

That's rather telling.

That's definitely as an engineer going in my head, I'm going to process that for a while and see what comes of it.

Yeah, you'll enjoy that.

Yeah.

So yeah, what you're taught, you believe and you manifest.

Yeah.

So it could also be though that the Catholics have Purgatory in Hell versus other religions, and that's why.

But go ahead with your manifestation idea.

Yeah.

Well, I believed it.

I really believed that when I died, I would go there.

Now, another thing I have-

Well, you didn't think you'd go to Heaven.

You were really convinced-

Well, no, because everybody goes to Purgatory.

I mean, except maybe Mother teresa.

And you know, on her deathbed, she was saying, I'm afraid I didn't do enough.

That poor woman, after all she did, she still was worried about Purgatory.

I mean, for crying out.

Yeah, I've had many years to think about this, to talk to other Catholics about this.

And we laugh about it now, but it wasn't funny then, believe me.

I want to tell you real quick, Kathy, in the audience, just so they know I'm not being critical religion.

I was the Catholic.

I actually got awarded when we went to Catholic school.

And this is Cleveland, Ohio, which is Roman Catholic.

We're talking, you shake the incense, the wooden ropes and caping candles and read the prayer books.

I was hardcore.

I got awarded the Dominic Savior Award, which I guess is an award.

It's a saint award.

They literally give to one kid each year.

I got that.

I believed everything.

And then I played piano in church.

So but I had forgotten the I thought I would just go into heaven just to keep positive attitude about the whole thing.

I don't remember the purgatory.

It's statistic.

I'm going to process that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's hilarious.

And what usually happens to people when they come back is they become spiritual, not religious.

Most people drop religion.

Because they have been there, they have felt the experience of God's immense love.

And there's no room for anything negative over there.

It's only love and bliss and joy.

God would never condemn anybody.

I think I experienced that because I also believe now that we choose our lives, and then we come down with things we want to learn or we want to experience.

And I think I was a pretty brave soul, which most people, I've been told, anybody that goes to earth is a really brave soul because it's a tough gig.

And I think I must have volunteered for some unknown reason.

I'll remember when I get home, home is heaven.

So what made you back in your state, how did you get out of hell, even though it's your projection, what you manifested?

How did you ultimately end up manifesting heaven instead of hell?

I didn't manifest heaven, that's real.

What I did is I went through this long, you can read about it in the book, very long, detailed experience that got worse and worse and worse.

And years later, like 20 years later, I started remembering like I was in the earthquake in Santa Cruz in 89 when the town fell down.

That was my opening scene.

That was hell on earth, man, being in that earthquake, thinking you're going to die any second.

People running and screaming fires on the whole bit.

So I thought, wait a minute, I made my own hell.

But I could trace back all these things that happened to me, and most people can.

So at the end, and it's a long road, it felt like about two years I was down there because there's no time.

Everything over there is just now.

When I finally got out, it was thanks to singing a Christmas carol.

I came up to a word they didn't like.

You can imagine when I'm way in a manger.

In Hell, you're singing Christmas carols in Hell?

I was a pill, man.

Every time they tried to pin me down, I'd come out fighting.

So the demon lady was not amused, and she went to club me, and I woke up and I thought I was going to just wake up in another segment in Hell, but I didn't.

I was just like infused with this incredible love, this incredible joy.

There was no molecule of any part of me that was not bursting with this joy and love, and it was just awesome, and you just want to stay there.

You don't want to go.

It's like perfect.

What were you seeing?

Well, as the bright light filtered down, I could see my friend that I'd been taking care of that had died the month before.

When you die of leukemia, it's not pretty.

No hair, purple, swollen eyes.

But he looked great.

I thought, oh my God, he doesn't look like he's 33.

He looked like he was about 35, and he looked healthy, and he's smiling, and he's laughing, and I thought, oh my God, he doesn't know he's dead.

Then he's really laughing, and I thought, I didn't say that out loud.

Did you know you were dead?

Not till he left, and I thought, oh my God, I'm dead.

Great.

This is the best news ever.

I remember him showing me something in this big book and it was only opened halfway, and I remember saying, oh no, no, no, that's going to be too hard.

I just want to stay here.

But then that flash went away, and then I'm seeing he came closer, and I thought he was going to give me a hug, and I said, come on, show me around.

And he goes, Mary Kay, you've got too much left to do.

Oh no, they're throwing me out.

And I was panicked.

I said, no, no, no.

And I wake up and it's too bright, the light's too bright, and there's people milling around, and I thought, oh my God, I'm back in hell.

And then my daughter turns around and says, mom's back.

I couldn't move.

I couldn't move at all.

It was too hot, and these people are getting close, and I'm so confused.

And I thought, wait a minute, I was just there, and now I'm here, and then there's this hell thing coming back in my memory.

And I was totally freaked, but I was down 86 pounds, so I lost all my muscle mass.

But no, I was nothing, literally skin and bones.

So I couldn't move.

How long were you in the coma for?

Almost three weeks.

You get a nasal tube with…

For three weeks?

Sure, for three weeks, 86 pounds.

I mean, I was only 105 to start with.

But I had the trach.

I couldn't talk or breathe by myself.

I couldn't move anything.

And now they're all coming toward me, and they're all talking at once.

And I remember my mom saying, Oh, Kathy, we had a prayer circle going around the world, and we brought you back.

Wow.

If I could get my hands on that woman, is that why I'm back instead of being with my friend in heaven?

I mean, it was a good thing I couldn't talk, Daniel.

For several days before they put that thing on my throat, there's a little device and you have to sound like a robot, but at least you can communicate.

But it was nasty.

You didn't get to spend as much time in heaven as you did.

No, I was robbed, man.

I didn't get a life review.

I didn't get to see all my friends, my pets.

Everybody comes back, most of them come back with all these wonderful stories.

I had lunch with jesus, all these wonderful stories and I got robbed.

But anyway, I was-

Before I forget to ask though, in case a listener who has this experience, they go, I remember when Kathy was saying on Daniel's podcast, how did you, is there a tip, a trick?

Yeah.

To get to Heaven from the Hell, what did you do to transition to India?

People say jesus, I mean, here I am.

Not really sure who jesus is anymore, but in my Catholic mind at the time, it was a trigger for me to say, okay, Kath, wake up, get out of there.

When you heard the word jesus or thought jesus?

I said, the song is the little Lord, and I said that, the demon leapt at me, and then everything changed.

But you know, God's not in that sort of a place.

That was something that I made, and God doesn't go in dark places like that.

So people always say, well, gee, you were Catholic.

Why didn't you say that earlier?

Because I needed that experience.

You know, the Greek heroes, they would go down into the underworld and they'd rescue the king's daughter or whatever and fight these skeleton demons and all that.

And they'd come back up and then they would give the people a message of hope and of courage.

And you can do this.

And that's what I did.

It sounds like if, I don't know what the odds are, pretty small.

You listen to this podcast, you have an NDE experience that's distressing.

And maybe what you have to just remember is, it's up to you, right?

How long you stay in hell before you decide you've had enough and you want to go to heaven.

And then it's get ready because the ride might end.

If you're coming back, that's, you don't, you're not really going to see too much to heaven, but it's up to you.

Well, you know, it's individual.

I mean, I've met many people now, not a lot, probably 20.

There's a lot of, there's several good books out there.

Howard Storm had one, Nancy Evans Bush.

She saved my life when she was like an amazing person, still is, and she was there.

So I thought, wow, I'm in good company.

But when you get back and you get to tell your story, because it's important, I would say if nothing else, if somebody's had a distressing near-death experience or hellish experience, please get a hold of iands.org, I-A-N-D.

I'll put that in the show notes.

Good.

Look up the distressing Near-Death Sharing Group.

A lot of people come and they're on a Zoom meeting, and they hide their face, you got a picture of their dog and they don't say anything, and then they come the next month and maybe they show their picture.

Then they show up and they say, you know what, I'm ready to tell my story because I've heard all you other people, and look at you're laughing, man, you recover, whatever, I want that.

So they tell their story and to have them say, I have never told this story to anybody.

I've been carrying this for 15 years.

Thank God for you people.

Do some people think that they're nuts or?

yes.

It has to be in their head.

They're not sure.

yes.

Then when the doctor tells you, no, you can't remember anything that happened.

Well, yeah, I do.

Well, your brain was offline.

Well, it didn't happen in my brain.

It's blazing on my soul, man.

When you say brain offline, so they've got no whatever on the machine that reads brain activity?

It's called white amnesia.

So I think if you think of something, it erases, it doesn't stick.

People like Ebony Alexander had a brain bleed.

I mean, his head was full of blood.

He was a neurosurgeon.

He went back and saw the pictures of his x-rays and stuff.

Yet he remembered everything that happened.

And this, the people, all over the world.

From, I'm going to process that for a while too, isn't it?

Sure.

For the moment, what comes to mind is, there's this idea that memories, people think they're in their brain, and then other people realize, no, it has to be non-localized, meaning your memories are energy-fueled outside your body.

So in a coma, if you can't remember stuff, it's because your body still may be communicating with that, memory, but you have actually left, which means you technically left the room, die, even though you did technically, yeah, technically really did.

Your body is still alive, but you got loose.

I mean, people walk in the operating room, they're hovering over the top and they can tell somebody's got a bald spot or whatever because they, but they're being operated on, they're not dead, they're just near-death and like I say, this happens in all cultures, all over the world.

We didn't all sit down and say, okay, here's our story.

This is what people all experience and it's all, what if you get to have and it's so joyful, you really don't want to go back and I understand that people that generally want to go back are the ladies that are having a baby and now they're in stress and they're dying or they've got a couple of little kids at home and they just can't do it.

They can't leave them.

They say, no, no, I want to go back.

But for the most part, you're told, you're not finished, you signed up to do these things.

One gal, Betty Gwardo, I can never say her last name.

She's the most cheerful, wonderful person.

She was a drug addict, sex worker that had a horrible childhood, a horrible life, had all this happened, and now she's one of the big advocates.

She's fine.

She's, I don't know.

It changes people.

So did you find out before you came back, you're in heaven.

Did they tell you or did you just realize what you unfinished business like your unfinished business or why you needed to come back?

Well, they were showing me that book.

Which book was it again?

Oh, this is great big book over on a table somewhere.

My friend had been showing me probably why I had to go back because it was only halfway.

I was 53 at the time.

I'm 78 now.

I figure I got to get to 100 and then I'll be done unless I can.

There's things you sign up to do and I haven't done them yet.

Well, partly because I hadn't had the experience yet.

So here I am.

This was 25 years ago that I had the experience.

Then I wrote the book four years ago and then we had COVID.

I wrote it because I was stuck in the house.

You get this voice thing that happened.

You hear, it's like your conscience is guarding you.

But it's really loud when you get back.

They kept saying, you got to write a book.

You got to write a book.

I don't want to write a book.

You got to write a book.

Finally, another synchronicity, I met this lady that was a publisher at one of the Iands things and she was a medium.

So she steps in front of me on the day that we're leaving and she says, they say you got to write a book.

That's great.

I know who they is.

Who's they?

She says, here's my card, which I threw in a drawer when I got home, but then COVID happened and then I thought I got it.

I got that and then I thought, okay, you got a book.

Now, you know.

So you didn't know when you're back to the book in Heaven, you couldn't read what it was saying, you didn't remember what you were supposed to do.

I just remember saying, oh no, that's going to be too hard.

I just want to stay here.

They said, no, that's not okay.

You have to go back.

Now, I realize all this and I got back, I got the book and COVID hits and some gal emails me from New Zealand and says, I want you to be on my podcast.

I said, I can't afford to fly to New Zealand.

She says, no, no, it's on Zoom.

I didn't know what a Zoom was.

I had to, you look all that stuff up.

Then I did this podcast for this lady and we had such a good time.

She'd had a near-death experience.

Then somebody else sent me a thing as somebody else.

Like I was telling you, I've got about, I think this is 150 now.

I've also got speaking engagements, so I don't really count those in.

But I didn't know how the message was going to get out.

It showed up and I'm not like you.

I don't have all these degrees and stuff.

I mean, I'm just somebody that happened to have a bad experience and like to write.

Nice.

So what was your secret about what life on planet Earth is about?

What did you remember about that?

Well, when I got back, I was freaked out for a very long time.

I could hear the voice a lot and I said, all right, listen, this Catholic, thou shalt not business did not work for me and I need to know something positive that is easy that I can share with people.

And it started coming and it was be loving and kind and then merciful and forgiving, encouraging, grateful, non-judgmental, and useful.

So I can't remember where I left my keys or what I had for breakfast, but that's in my soul, burned on there.

And I do that every morning, help me be loving, kind, merciful, forgiving, all that.

And if you can't remember all of that, please just be loving and kind.

Anytime anything comes up, especially you're in traffic, whatever, take a breath, loving and kind.

And you can't believe how that changes the space around you, the people around you.

It just starts to multiply.

And if we could all just learn that to just take a breath and be loving and kind, your whole life's going to be better.

And you can't, like I say, I'm working at a senior center now.

I went in just because the voice told me.

And they told me that I had to at least interact with two people that I didn't know, what they pointed them out, which I've done.

They both become very, very good friends.

And I just got a really nice email from the gal that's the director down there.

And she says, I just want to tell you, the atmosphere, the flavor of this whole congregation has changed since you've gotten here.

It's, there's, there's just more family and love.

And I just want to thank you for showing up.

So those are the kind of, that's the kind of feedback that keeps me going.

It reminds me of the beatles.

All you need is love.

All you need is love.

And you think it's a silly pop, a silly pop song when in fact, they're trying to give you the best advice anybody could give all of us.

Because God is love.

And that's why people don't need, that's the other thing.

You don't need to be afraid of death.

You're not going to hell.

Skip the trip.

Quit believing that crap they tell you.

It's not true.

God is all loving, all forgiving, and would never condemn anybody.

Now, what would you tell people who do really bad stuff that they're only kept in check because they are worried to go going to hell?

I think I myself at any have to wonder what if these people stop believing in hell, will they just haphazardly, we still have our prisons and our legal system, but will they have no morality, no conscience?

Are these the people that need love the most, and that's why they're lashing out and doing bad things?

Well, like I said, I didn't get the life review, I didn't get all the information, but the people tell me there's no such, this blows me away still.

There's really no right or wrong, it's all experience because we are here, because we choose to be here, we've got a large section of soul mates that we hang with in heaven.

We come down and do these reincarnations thousands of times, and most of the time, I guess, you get to pick your friends.

This time I'll be your wife, this time I'll be then.

So like for you and me, I believe that we planned this, that we would meet up, all this time we're not going to see each other much.

We'll get together for an hour, okay?

That's why you came back, Kathy.

That's why you came back.

I have to go back.

Daniel's podcast is in 10 years.

I told them I'd be on it, and so there.

People say that all the time.

You had to come because you had to be here for me in this situation.

I couldn't have done this without your help.

That makes me feel glad that I'm back, because most of the time, I feel like I want to go home.

This is too hard.

I want to go home.

But yeah, I'll stick around until the last person.

Why do you think it has to be so hard?

Yeah, go ahead.

It's about contrast, they tell me.

In Heaven, everything's great.

We know everything.

There's the Akashic records.

You can go all to all these different, the universes.

I mean, there's a lot of things out there and a lot of planets have a lot of life on them.

And I'm told this is the toughest one.

You got to be really brave to come here.

So we're immortal.

We don't die.

And I don't know.

I don't think you get bored.

But I think that Earth is kind of a challenge.

You know, oh boy, it's like taking that really, really scary ride at the fair, you know, that you never wanted to do.

But, oh, your friends want you to go.

And it's like, oh man, I know I'm going to throw up.

I'm going to fall out.

I'm going to die.

But you go because they drag you.

Or they're more like you're an adventure person.

My goodness.

Well, that's what came to my mind.

Like, maybe I picked Earth because I like a challenge that was aerospace engineering and rock climbing.

But then, you know, like, really?

Like, why would you do that to yourself if there's not some joy behind it?

Well, there is joy behind it.

You had a good time.

Yeah.

I mean, it wasn't always good because the thrill is it could tank on you.

You know, the Earth is a challenge.

But on a really good day, you wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

You know, you're in nature, the sun's shining, birds are out.

You you're healthy.

You're singing a song.

I mean, there's nothing like Earth.

But then on the flip side, you can't appreciate that unless you've had the dark days, you've had the hard times.

And that's the time to help other people.

You see them in that that that's and and you're to help each other.

It's a challenge.

I think one of the, you know, there's a lot of depressed people and a lot of lonely people.

And I'm really surprised when I have a conversation with people saying, why don't you just say hello to that person?

You can see they're by themselves and they look lonely and they look like they're having a bad day.

And they tell me, you know, Dan, not everybody's as nice as you.

And I'm like, I just can't believe that.

Why would?

What's wrong with people?

yes.

What's wrong with people?

And then it gets paid back someday.

You're going to be lonely by yourself.

Maybe your spouse left you when you go to a coffee shop and you're sitting there.

Do I have to be crying for people to reach out and go, hey, you know, I'm just going to talk to that.

I'm just going to go hi to that stranger.

Yeah.

You're absolutely right.

Absolutely right.

It's just that easy.

We're here to be loving and kind and to love all about love.

Yeah.

Just a simple hello.

Although I guess in some parts, they'll look at you strange, like what's the matter with you?

Why?

What do you want?

Why are you saying hello to me?

That's okay.

Let them be concerned.

You know, it's better than why did that guy scream at me or curse me or whatever it's like.

That's true.

And then you just smile.

Maybe I'm not so bad.

That guy is just-

Smiling helps.

Smiling is very, very helpful.

Just wanted to say hello.

Have a good day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Have a good day.

Yeah.

Hold the door open for somebody with groceries.

You know, they look at you like you gave them $100.

You know, oh, thanks for getting the door.

Wow.

It could be that this planet's designed to be.

It is clearly the mountains are beautiful in the forest and the sky.

And it could be it's one of the most beautiful planets.

That's why we come here, not for the challenge.

And we're all making it more difficult than needs to be on each other.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're just all nice to each other.

Yeah.

So I take it you're not afraid to die again.

No.

I mean, we all have to.

I'm just going to say you will sometime, right?

You're mortal, but your body's going to die.

I'm looking forward to it.

I really am.

Another funny thing is I went to work for hospice when I got back.

A lot of us do because we're jealous.

Those people are going home and we would trade with them in a minute.

I said that to one guy one time.

He was freaking out.

He said, I trade places with you and he looked at me like I was nuts.

I have been there.

It is so joyful.

All of your friends and relatives, your pets, it's a party man and his eyes, he couldn't talk, his eyes got all big and he settled in, got a smile on his face.

So it's those little things that help that guy.

Did you give him the pre-flight checklist like, okay, listen, man, it's all what you manifest and believe, and here's what's going to happen.

I think jesus is some happy and then you go to heaven.

Yeah.

If you're lucky, you won't come back and if you do, you're still lucky because you're going back either way.

Here's the quick manual, man.

You get 10 minutes to read this.

Yeah, quick.

Yeah, go through there, a little speed reading.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It is helpful and it's helpful for the people that say, oh, my mom just died, I'll never see her again.

And yeah, you will.

She's hanging out with you.

And you'll see her when you go, oh, she just, how do you know?

And I said, I was there.

Oh, she grabbed her husband and shaking him.

I'm going to see my mom again.

I'm going to see my mom again.

Yeah.

You know, that brings up my mom and my grandmother died.

It's been a couple of years, but literally, she is still not my, when before my grandmother died, they moved her into my parents' house.

And the room she lived in and died in, they took care of her before she died.

It's basically looks like a mausoleum.

Her clothes are still on the bed.

Yeah.

You walk in.

Yeah.

And they cannot get over that.

And come to think of it, my parents are hard for Catholics.

And grain like no budging like and believe.

Like we're talking about the wrath of God.

And I don't know if that's why.

But is there anything, is there anything somebody in that position can do besides therapy and decides what we're talking about?

Well, you might want to recommend that they listen to some of these upbeat near-death experiences.

Once they hear it over and over and over, and everybody's saying the same thing, how wonderful it is on the other side and how, you know, my dad died three years ago, but he's still with me.

He still turns on the light every night when I'm watching television.

He sent me an e-mail just after he died.

I mean, they're there.

Anytime I lose anything, dad, I can't find my phone.

And then I see a picture in my mind, it's in my pocket in the closet.

I mean, they're here and they're waiting for you.

My grandmother was ready to die.

She would, in her sleep, you could hear her yelling out like, I want to die because she was overhunt.

She was a hundred.

She was in horrible health, couldn't remember anything.

She was ready to go.

But my mom never got a, still hasn't gotten over that.

And well, you know, you're going to die too someday.

And then you can see her, you know, you could live while you're still here.

Because she's having a great time waiting for you.

She's not happy that you're not happy.

Well, if she could just, I don't know, meditation is helpful, I think, where you can get kind of quiet.

But her mom is still right there, right there.

And yeah, again, if she can listen to some of these, these positive ones, not the negative ones.

Because Catholics, we're afraid they're in purgatory, they're afraid they're in hell.

And that's a terrible way to be.

So, when you came back from the coma, came back from death, I'm just going to say, even though we established we weren't clinically dead, came back from being dead, I'm fine with that.

Did you have family and friends who were Christians?

And you didn't tell the story for 10 years.

So, tell me how that felt and what, you're holding this inside and they, you're all probably still going to church, right?

They are.

They are.

I go with them if I visit because my mom's 97 with dementia and I'm not going to try and fight her or my sister who's an evangelical.

That's cool.

That's what works for them.

But how did you bow out from the social pressure of all of a sudden, Oh my God, Kathy, aren't you glad to be alive and you're not going to go to church and thank God for it?

What's the matter with you?

How did you deal with that?

I went for a couple of years and then when COVID broke out, you couldn't go to church anymore.

And that was my, because I had to stop going on Sunday because I couldn't listen to the sermons.

I couldn't say the prayers because, you know, like the resurrection of the dead.

You're going to hell or purgatory.

There's no dead people up there.

Your body stays here.

I mean, everything was wrong.

And so I finally just stopped going.

And yeah, the family, I tried to tell them and then they would freak out.

The only person that read it was my dad.

I, you know, God bless him.

He, he wrote the first chapter of my book because he had an, not a near-death experience, but just plane crash on an island in the philippines during the war and upside down.

And he was going to die.

He told God, get me out of here and I'll become a Catholic.

He was an atheist.

And miraculously, some guys came out of the jungle and lifted the plane off of him.

And he made it.

But manifestation, he manifested that.

Yeah.

He says, I want out of here.

And God says, okay, here you go, there's a couple of marines.

But he, he read it and he believed me.

And, and we've got a date when I eat.

He's always with me.

But when, when we get, I get on the other side, we're going to go fly.

He was an air pilot.

We're going to go fly all through the universe.

And I want to see what's in a black hole.

So we're going to go down a black hole.

And life is so much different when you got that to look forward to, not fear.

Well, another question just popped into my head.

And I don't know if you know the answer based on your experience, but the reincarnation word that you mentioned, where then, I think most people have heard that idea, you come back in a different body of life.

How do you think that works?

If you're up there with your dad flying around, does your dad go, hey, you know what, Kathy, it's been nice, but I'm going to go back and be a dolphin or be a woman or something like that.

Yeah, something like that.

Well, eternity is a long time.

It's never over.

So it's not like you're not ever going to see that person again.

I don't know.

Anybody that's been back is always just joyful and happy and can't wait to get back.

And even if that means reincarnating, people are a little goosey about coming back to Earth.

Most of them are.

And the rest of the people that you meet in your-

Hundreds and hundreds of them.

Yeah.

In your groups, do they all have the same-

they're happy to go back.

They're kind of had a good experience or if they have a bad one, they've come to have a good one out of it all.

Do they all have that same idea about saying hello to a stranger, being kind and nice to other people?

Yeah.

It's about love.

It's just all about love.

God is love.

God is energy.

God is every piece of the entire universe, including us, and we're pieces of God, literally with our soul.

does anyone ever come back, ever come back the opposite, just still angry and like the devil with hatred?

Never heard of anybody.

I've never heard of anybody saying they were judged.

They just get the life review, which is supposed to be kind of interesting.

I mean, you get to see your whole life, and then they turn it around and you get to experience the joy and the pain that you caused to other people, so that's the closest to judgment you're going to come.

But it's really just a self-judgment.

Yeah, you're just kind of, how did I do?

It's kind of like you had a test and you wanted to see what you got right and what you screwed up on.

And it's not a judgment, it's like, oh, I could have done a little better there, but wow, you know, I did really good over here.

And so next time I go down, I'm going to be a little more careful about such and such.

And then, but it's, it's not a, this is kind of like a play and you wrote, you wrote the lines.

My theory of it all has been, of course, I don't know, but I have, I have had the experience of being the hardcore Catholic, mind you.

So keep that in mind, people, when you, if you judge me for being too on the flip side, I've come around to where I think it is what you believe it will be.

To which my dad, for example, who is so rigid, like you can't hug him and not feel the rigidity in his body.

He's so just traumatized by life and he believes in this religion so much.

I kind of believe that he's going to get when he dies what he believes.

I just hope it's not hell.

It sounds, Kathy, like even if it is eventually, he will come to light because we all do, because that's where the love is.

Maybe-

Daniel, I don't think he will have this experience.

I think he's going to be blown away and healed.

He'll be just saturated with love, and that was something he chose to come down, and maybe he wanted to see what would a really dark life feel like.

I want to experience, I've had all this joy and love.

I want to see what it would be like to be a really depressed human.

I want to experience that, and he did, and now he gets to go home and say, won't do that again.

I wouldn't worry about him.

He'll be fine.

Is there anything that we haven't covered that you think is really important or part of your story that's really memorable and cool?

Cool.

Just the thing about letting go of harmful teachings, anything that tells you that God is not complete love, anything that says you're going to be condemned if you do this or that.

I just say run, please get away from that.

It's not true and you're just making yourself miserable for nothing.

I'm sorry for the people that chose to be that way, to be condemning kind of people.

But that's what they chose and if we didn't have the contrast, you and I would not be having this conversation.

Kathy's book is Misfit in Heaven.

Misfit in Hell.

Misfit in Hell.

Yeah.

I'll remember that now because he told me you were misfit because you kept rebelling and saying no to the devil.

Misfit in Hell.

To Heaven Expat.

That's about, you know what an expat is, don't you?

An expatriate.

No, tell me real quick.

An expatriate is a person, say you're working for Lipton Soup Company and they want you to go to India and open a manufacturing place.

Well, while you are in India, you're an expatriate because you're really a United states citizen.

So the people over there call themselves expats and generally, they get together at night at some expat bar from all over.

But when you're through with your work, then you go back home.

So we're expats of heaven.

We all start in heaven.

We're part of God's soul.

We come down here, we do our work, and we go home.

Nice.

Like an angel.

Yeah.

We are like angels.

We're all spirit.

And the subtitle for that book is lessons from a Dark Near-Death Experience and How to Avoid Hell in the Afterlife.

That's a good one.

That's probably one of the tips I was trying to pull out of your case I have.

Yeah.

Number one, don't believe in.

And in case I made an accident on the highway and end up in these, in Kathy's books, there's how to avoid the hell in the afterlife.

And you can also see sneak reviews on our website, right?

Yeah.

And by book, you sell signed copies of your book on your website.

I do on my website, but you can get them on Amazon and barnes and Noble and all of that stuff.

I've got CDs and I've got audibles and I've got kindles or anything to get the message out.

All these details will be in the show notes.

Thank you, Daniel.

Thank you.

This has been such fun.

You are a delightful young man.

Thank you, Kathy.

Thanks for being on my show and I'm glad you came back.

Yeah.

Me too.

When it's times like this, I think, oh, I'm glad, because then I wouldn't have been there.

Nice speaking to you.

Take care.

Hey, everybody, it's Daniel again.

I've had some time to process the idea in my engineering brain of the idea that Kathy brought up of, or my question anyhow.

How is it the doctors say you won't remember anything, and yet Kathy did remember who she was.

She didn't even know she died when she had died, and her experiences of hell and heaven when she did die, and the message that she learned, she brought that back.

So she remembered that too.

So how is that possible?

So I have an explanation.

Start with, there's this idea, somebody else thought of, been around a while, that our memories are not localized, meaning they're not in the brain.

If all the memories are stored in the brain, how would you do that?

It's not like a computer where you can convert it to bits and bytes.

You see in color every day, you see the clouds, the sky, the grass, the colors, you hear sounds, those are sound waves.

The waves are color waves, light waves.

Those are not bits and bytes.

So if you can store a memory of what you see and hear, it wouldn't make sense to convert it to ones and zeros like you do in a computer.

For one, you would need an interface to convert it to ones and zeros to store it, and then you would need to go through the deep programming to take the bits and bytes and put it to an image on your computer screen.

If that's how you bring really stored stuff, and to store it like bits and bytes, it would have to have little salt crystals in your body charged either on or off, just like a computer hard drive, which means you'd run out of memory space, plus it'd be really inefficient.

And who would do that anyhow except someone inventing a computer?

Because think about it, before there were digital, digital televisions and digital Wi-Fi, traditional radio and TV was waves.

There was nothing digital.

There was no computer chip.

Nothing was digital in an original radio and television set.

It was all capturing sound and motion picture as a wave and transmitting it as a wave.

To which the idea is that your memories are not stored in your brain, stored outside your body or someplace in the field in a wave.

Non-localized is the term, meaning not local to the brain, but outside the brain or the body.

So here's my idea.

Let's pretend where you store your memories is like a filing box, a box of files that you put your taxes in, your bills and stuff to store them.

So whenever you're in your body and you have a memory, that would go into the storage box.

And if you need to retrieve it, you pull it out of storage box.

So you could remember, oh, I should have paid that bill, I forgot about it.

Or, oh, that's what my old high school photo used to look like.

So now, let's pretend that you're dead, and your point of reference, your viewpoint of experience is some place in the clouds.

The doctor says you're not going to remember what's happening to you back in the hospital.

And that's because you're not in your body with your hands, and your hand is not putting stuff in and out of the filing cabinet from your body.

Now you are literally in the cloud.

But Mary didn't even know she was dead, and she was able to remember everything as if she had never died, who she was, her friends, her family, her religion.

To which my idea here is from the cloud, it's the same thing.

You're putting stuff into the filing cabinet, you're taking stuff out.

Filing cabinet is the same filing cabinet.

That's how, when she came back into her body in a point of references now here again, she was able to access the memories from her experience in the cloud, same filing cabinet box.

And now her point of reference from which she's experienced everything is back in the body.

So, whenever she has an experience in the hospital, going to go in that filing cabinet.

And there's no explanation for how this might all work.

Some of you have probably thought this up, have some ideas more so than myself.

I'd love to hear them.

Send your comments to my website, danielstih.com, danielstih.com, or the podcast.

And I'd love to hear them.

And we can have some additional conversations about this.

That's all for now.

Look forward to seeing you back on another one of my podcasts.

Take care.

Be safe out there.

Don't try to have an NDE just to see what it's like.

You'll get that soon enough.

We all do, sometime.

Maybe the way reincarnation works is you empty the filing box, the file box, to start a new life with a new identity, and one little receipt or one little picture, one picture gets stuck in the box.

That's how when you start a new life, you reincarnate.

You have knowledge or memory of a past life, but just a little bit, you don't remember everything.